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56M Perini S/Y Bayesian Sinks During Palermo Storm

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by kevin8tor, Aug 19, 2024.

  1. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    As everything else has been. But it's enlightening and entertaining. :rolleyes:
    captholli likes this.
  2. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Well, the speculation statement is a disclaimer, we are not in the official Accident Investigation Business and with this being a very public forum….
    In other words some guests or newspaper journalists surfing this page should see the Speculation Disclaimer and leave it at that and leave it right here instead of copy, past and publish on their own platforms.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    e-sys yacht news

    Crew fell into the water while clearing the decks,, before sudden storm.

    Maybe somebody else can detect something useful.
    I didn't get much.
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Some other half interesting videos from the same guy.
    Of interest, wind loading on the rigs and swing keel normally in the raised position.
    Many here have discussed this in fine detail already.

  5. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    The side garage door left open, leaves me perplexed, as Bayesian is reported to be resting on its starboard area.
    If the water which sank her came through that door, then the yacht would naturally swing down to port side, and I do not know of natural force which can tip it to the other side.
    Also in the video (not 100% decipherable), when we see the mast swinging a bit, it looks also move to starboard.
  6. Urbsey

    Urbsey Member

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    I'm gonna stay at metric system for this one.
    Equipment number for Bayesian should be around 139.
    That means that she should/was carrying 2 anchors of at least 390kg each (she had 2x 430kg), chain combined at least 275 meters (don't know how much was on her), and chain diameter of 20,5mm (Ordinary steel - Grade 1) or 17,5mm (High-strenght steel - Grade 2). She had Grade 2 chain with a diameter of 24mm.

    TL: DR: Chains combined onboard S/Y Bayesian are/were at least 10 shots.
  7. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Today Italian newspapers are reporting the Captain is under investigation for manslaughter.
    (La Republica and Palermo)
  8. Dave Jakcson

    Dave Jakcson New Member

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    'Bayesian thinking is a way to make decisions using probability. It starts with initial beliefs (priors) and changes them when new evidence comes in (posterior). This helps in making better predictions and decisions based on data. It's crucial in fields like AI and statistics where accurate reasoning is important.' - Mirriam Webster. We are missing data here until the hull is examined.
    I was a large sailing yacht skipper for 30 years and suffered a knockdown at sea when we were motoring into a 10 knot wind and into almost calm sea. We were hit by straight line winds from the beam and healed about 80 degrees. The amount of damage the boat took was amazing, but the engine room air intakes were only partially dipped into sea water which ended with a couple of bucket full of salt water ingress. The intakes for Bayesian are fairly high up on the superstructure but a full knockdown would flood the ER resulting in full loss of power. Also take a look at the salon: https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/luxury-charter-yacht-22774/bayesian-photos.htm. There are a couple of works of art that would be powerful projectiles for the nearby windows. I believe this will be found a simple knock down, which caused either glass failure or a electric motor or genset hurled through the hull. I have also sailed bare poles surfing at the borderline of control in 70 knots of wind. There is plenty of windage on this boat to knock her down and keep her there for minutes...thats all it takes.
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  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    I wonder if the builders all encompassing statements had any bearing on that decision.
  10. kevin8tor

    kevin8tor Senior Member

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    I found this report interesting when it referenced former crew who indicated that the salon doors, which are automatic, and quite heavy, are incapable of staying closed on their own when the yacht heels 20 degrees or more. Apparently, they slide open under their own weight, but keeping them locked is inconvenient for the movement of the passengers, so they are typically unlocked. These salon doors exit to the sunken cockpit/entertainment area that extends all the way to the side decks of the yacht. If the boat laid over on it's starboard side, this would allow this cockpit and potentially the salon to be inundated in short order.

    All speculation, indeed, but food for thought. Apparently, the boat will be raised at the expense of the owner, according to the same video.
  11. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Detailed remarks and observations from Stephen Edwards (the former captain of Bayesian) on the mast, ballast, stability and hull openings for Bayesian are contained within the attached PDF. The pages have been snipped from the PDF and are displayed below.

    PDF supplied by YF member Norseman.

    ***

    Attached Files:

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  12. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    none of the videos mention any type of automation on the sliding doors which I find very odd on a sailing vessel which will heel under sail. I used to run a MY with a big heavy pneumatic sliding door and you couldn’t force it open
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Very interesting details. I was wondering about the keel design as there had been conflicting information out there. So it turns out it is not a lifting keel with most of the weight in the bulb but just a very heavy center board.

    one thing I wonder though is why the dampers don’t automatically shut down once the boat reaches 45 degrees. Also at what angle do the generators stop working due to falling oil pressure when the oil sloshes in the pan? Years ago, in rough water with a non stab boat I had a gen shut down due to oil pressure. Usually loss of AC power will trigger a damper closing
  15. kevin8tor

    kevin8tor Senior Member

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    I'm sorry, it was this video last evening that mentioned the automated doors and their tendency to slide open.....
  16. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    He doesn’t mention any automatic system. At 5 minutes into the blah blah blah… can this guy stretch a video or what? :) he mentions that they will open when heeled unless locked. No mention of hydraulic or pneumatic actuation
  17. Scott W

    Scott W Senior Member

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    He obviously doesn't offer any opinions much less any conclusions. But, there are several facts about the ship's design that explain a lot of things. These comments as well as the characterization of the meteorological conditions from the Italian Air Force (namely an absence of advance warning of severe weather) go a considerable way towards undermining the reflexive blame the CEO of the Italian Sea Group laid almost immediately on the crew. It turns out that if you lay a superyacht over for a period of time, bad things happen.
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  18. kevin8tor

    kevin8tor Senior Member

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    Automated or not......The crux of my point was the doors slide open when the yacht heels...unless locked.
  19. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    I'm not sure I'd believe that. Even if it were true, I don't believe it wasn't addressed at some point in the vessel's "lifetime"
    I also don't believe that wouldn't be caught in initial sea trials, if not at design stage.
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    That is why they should be automatic. Properly installed and adjusted, a pneumatic piston will allow a sliding door to move manually.