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Emergency generator??

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by richierich33, Nov 7, 2023.

  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    When you had a bunch of halogens on 24v dc circuits, they would dim and brighten on their own as the battery charger goes through various modes of charging, or other dc loads kick on, that's why they used a transformer so the lights stayed on at an even brightness. A lot of yacht manufacturers do this.
  2. bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

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    How does a transformer work on 24VDC lights? Must have missed that class when working on my EE.
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Woops meant 24v ac lights instead of dc lights.
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    But ACv lights don't need a battery charger? :rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D

    ACv halogen lamps will blink, even thru those lil hatteras transformers when some Air units cycle on or DCv halogens change while on charger or mains alternators.

    Our fix, Replace the ACv transformers with ACv to DCv power supplies and run DCv LED lamps.
    These power supplies or drivers keep the LEDs at a constant level and still use very little current.
  5. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    12v LED have better dimming qualities than 24v LED. Also, best to still run the dc power through a transformer designed for the LED bulbs by the manufacturer. Third party dimmers , like those made by Blue Sea, don't provide quality dimming control. At low setting the darn things flicker. There's actually a science here that needs to be followed...
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The boat has combination of dimmers.the guest rooms had small dimmers modules called I-something that were not working with LEds We just removed them as nobody was using them anyway and rewired the boxes. The master and all other areas have an older Lutron system which works fine with LEDs.

    it s always a bit hit or miss.

    problem with an 24 VAC system is that you need compatible bulbs which are harder to find. When I replaced the antique halogen stern floodlights I had to use DC - AC converters for the Lumitec fixtures to work
  7. richierich33

    richierich33 New Member

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    Quick update on this. Rewired the emergency generator as a secondary generator. Simply relocated the existing transfer switch and upgraded the breakers in it accordingly. New location is in a new box that shares the main breaker. Just over a year now and I couldn’t be happier. Turns out the 13k is a great choice for cruising

    Attached Files:

  8. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    I served the circuits with 24v DC. My next step was to swap to 12v bulbs and install a small sept down 24-12 for the circuits. The Vimar momentary rocker switches control the driver. Next step is to experiment with a different driver. I haven't gone there yet. Need to research options. Blue Seas is not the answer for the LED...
  9. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    I've gotten useful LED info from marinebeam. And some (all?) of their "bulbs" are for 10-30VDC so relatively versatile.

    We have some low-voltage AC lighting circuits with Vimar dimmers (no clue why somebody thought AC lighting was a good idea) and the marinebeam LEDs a) work, even though it's 24VAC, and b) dim, to a certain extent. Latter not perfect, good enough for us.

    -Chris
  10. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    It's kinda crazy to think that I need to step power up from DC to AC with a transformer just so that the led bulbs can properly dim...
  11. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Didn't mean that. I think.

    The three 120VAC lighting circuits were built for incandescent bulbs. No clue why 120VAC lighting. No clue why the 120VAC-to-24VAC step-down, since both 120VAC and 12VDC (and also 24VDC?) dimmers exist.

    I simply switched all boat "bulbs" to LED. Didn't even understand the step-down at the time... but it works (well enough) with the LEDs so I live with it.

    -Chris
  12. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad Senior Member

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    My guess would be because by the time you've got even half a dozen bulbs on a single circuit you could be pulling 600+W, requiring ~25A @24Vdc. This affects wiring size and generally complicates installation. Not to mention an adequate 24Vdc battery/charger/distribution system. The same lighting @120V requires ~5A so much more capacity on a 14AWG wire with 15A breaker.

    Still guessing, it's because AC-AC voltage conversion has been easy for a very long time. Nowadays we have all kinds of little black (blue?) boxes converting AC-DC, DC-AC and even DC-DC which likely weren't available during initial construction.
  13. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Hmmm... still trying to understand that. The three AC circuits each only have a few light fixtures. 4 one one, 2 on another, can't remember on the third but maybe 4. And the other lighting circuits, DC, have at least as many fixtures, usually at least 4...

    Each of those AC circuits also has some outlets... but I wouldn't think combining outlets with lighting would be an actual reason to do it that way.

    -Chris
  14. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad Senior Member

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    As these were originally all incandescent, the AC fixtures are probably rated for ~100W bulbs and the DC for ~20W.

    Re: outlets, if 120Vac circuits (probably 15A?) are being run to those spaces anyway I could understand combining lighting if higher wattage bulbs are needed there.
  15. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Yeah, I think the original (xenon?) bulbs -- no matter whether AC or DC circuits -- were a bazillion watts each. Hot! But all of the interior lighting fixtures throughout the boat are the same, AC, DC, no difference. The "bulbs" are all G4 bi-pin (back pin).

    I think 15A; maybe 20A for the outlet dedicated to the microwave... but that's just guessing.

    -Chris
  16. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    on older boats, about pre 2010/2012, all lights were pretty much halogens / xenon. On bigger boats, it s a long wire run from ER where batteries are usually located so voltage drop was a concern.

    when I took over the 110 I run, it still had xenon bulbs… about 350 of them. At 10-20w each, that’s about 5KW total…. It took me a while to find and test AC compatible warm white LEDs that would work as is, with the Vince dimmers used in guest rooms and the Lutron system used on the main deck and PH/Slylounge. What a PITA

    each guest room had a control box with 2 to 3 120VAC to 24VDC transformers which would power the lights and dimmers. I guess three were needed because of the incandescent draw… only left one in each box for the LEDs

    It turned out the dimmers couldn’t handle the low draw and we had to put in an incandescent bulb in the box. Pretty stupid so I ended up removing all the dimmers all together and requiring each box . Nobody ever used them anyway…

    What really scares me is the aging Lutron system. If that fails, we loose most of the lights and because there are no traditional wires between the Lutron system and the various switches, we can’t get rid of it. In an emergency we d have to manually connect each circuit in the Lutron box.
  17. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Woof! That's a LOT of lights!

    We're much smaller, of course, so don't have so many. But that "battery distance" point reminds me now, in retrospect, that I don't really remember off-hand whether lights in our bow stateroom -- 4 overhead and 2 reading, furthest from batteries -- are AC or DC. I'll have to check that. All of the 3 AC circuits I know about are closer (4 saloon, 2 galley, master), with the dimmers on the saloon and galley overheads.

    -Chris
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Back in 2014, I switched out all 67, g4 halogens in a 62' Sunseeker to LED, in that time period we have had 1 bulb burn out, 1 !!!!!!!!!!! But, we went from 27 amps at 24 volts with all of them on, to 2.4 amps draw and a lot less heat.......game changer