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56M Perini S/Y Bayesian Sinks During Palermo Storm

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by kevin8tor, Aug 19, 2024.

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  1. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Yes, the 60 second sinking sounded unreal, like she was torpedoed.
    That being said, 12 minutes should be enough time to get everybody out of the sinking ship, but sadly
    It wasn’t and everybody wants to know why not?
    Scott W likes this.
  2. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    I don’t think it was 12 minutes. I think what the likely story is that the watch called the captain for the weather and that started the 12 minute clock. Probably got crew on deck to prepare not knowing what would happen and then things went south immediately and quickly and she sunk in a minute from whatever the trigger was.
  3. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Yes, the 12 minutes could have been from the time she started dragging anchor rather than from the time she laid over.
    The Captain was questioned by prosecutors for 2 hours Thursday and his name has been released.
    So far 1 body is not recovered, the 18 year old female.

    https://news.sky.com/story/bodies-r...ht-identified-by-italian-authorities-13199804
  4. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    Any word on if they're going to raise her ?
  5. Maritna_ra

    Maritna_ra Active Member

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    Not at the moment. They are still searching for the daughter. After that the authorities will decide about that.
  6. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    IMG_7810.jpeg
    The boat will almost certainly be salvaged: Heard on the news a barge and crane is expected to be in position in the near future. 2,000 gallons of onboard fuel needs to be disposed of as well.
    (A lift bag at the mast top should bring her upright then straps under the hull)

    Don’t know if the Italians have the equipment, but the Dutch certainly do.
  7. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    The area in the photo where the mast meets the deck is a "temporary" structure recessed into the deck, much like a pool. It's used as a living area with a water tight door to the crew area. Tend to think the crew surfaced in response to the weather, the door was open, and chaos then struck. Width of that mast is itself a significant sail.
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    That and possibly watertight side doors left open or at least unsecured while the crew was securing the boat as the storm hit.

    Crew or contractors leaving critical doors open drives me nuts. How much help will the fire system be if the ER door is left wide open for instance? Same with transom doors… doors may have contacts to show they re closed but it doesn’t mean they re actually latched

    being Italy where local prosecutors love to make a name for themselves…. The captain and crew must be worried by now even if this falls into the freak accident category.
  9. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    This is the front recessed area under the tent.

    Attached Files:

  10. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad Senior Member

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    I agree that a very sudden and rapid event sounds much more feasible than a 12 minute ordeal. Additionally the master of the neighbouring vessel Sir Robert Baden-Powell stated they were manoeuvring under engine power to avoid the yacht then suddenly it was gone.

    Much speculation has been wrt the windage of the aluminium mast; I'm wondering how much buoyancy it provided. With board raised vessel VCG is obviously higher, downflooding in a knockdown position raises it higher still, potentially leading to an equilibrium condition whereby the vessel centre of mass lies between two independent centres of buoyancy, one due to immersed volume of the hull (at ~90° heel) the other due to the immersed volume of this rather large mast. The vessel would then just lie there on her side, taking on water very quickly until sinking occurs.
  11. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad Senior Member

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    This is very likely considered an external space and not included in any stability calcs.
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    A couple of minutes seems awfully quick for a boat that size to disappear no matter how many doors or hatches were open. Is it possible gens were knocked out once the list reached a severe angle leaving just emergency lights which will not have been visible in a squall?

    Another water ingress point could be large deck hatches opening by gravity once the boat was on its side. Some hydraulic hatches will prevent opening but others may not. I wonder what the class rules say.
    Scott W likes this.
  13. Maritna_ra

    Maritna_ra Active Member

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    The founder and CEO of The Italian Sea Group is quite angry at the crew, but...I would say...at the Captain.
    He didn't mention him, maybe for legal reasons, but as a native speaker, I can clearly see who he is pointing the finger at.
    And..in the second last sentence (in red)...maybe he did.

    Here what he said...you can easily translate it in English.

    I'll only translate the text in blue because it's a typical expression that only native speakers can recognize.
    So it's: the fact that it came out of nowhere, suddenly, is bullshit.

    "Tutto ciò che è stato fatto rivela una sommatoria lunghissima di errori" - ha dichiarato al Corriere Giovanni Costantino, fondatore e amministratore delegato di The italian sea group, la società quotata in borsa proprietaria degli asset di Perini navi di Viareggio che costruì il Bayesian nel 2008 -. "Le persone non dovevano essere nelle cabine, la barca non doveva essere all'ancora. E poi perché l'equipaggio non sapeva della perturbazione in arrivo? I passeggeri hanno riferito una cosa assurda, e cioè che la tempesta è arrivata inaspettata, all'improvviso. Non è vero. Era tutto prevedibile. Io ho qui davanti a me le carte meteo. È arrivata all'improvviso un bel niente. Si chieda: perché nessun pescatore di Porticello era fuori quella notte? Un pescatore legge le condizioni meteo e una nave no? La perturbazione era leggibile appieno in tutte le carte meteo. Non si poteva non sapere".

    Costantino non ci sta a vedere sotto accusa quel gioiello a vela che lui definisce "una delle imbarcazioni più sicure al mondo". Praticamente "inaffondabile. Ovvio, salvo che non imbarchi acqua. Non c'è un'altra spiegazione". Per l'amministratore delegato di The italian sea group di sicuro il naufragio di Palermo avrebbe rappresentato un rischio pari a zero se fossero state fatte le manovre correttee se non fossero intervenute delle situazioni che hanno compromesso la stabilità della nave. "L'imbarcazione - ha osservato - era all'ancora. A un certo punto l'ancora perde la presa e lei si sposta trascinata dal vento che la spinge prendendola in pancia. La spinge per quattro minuti che noi definiamo di scarrocciamento, la ruota e la pone nella posizione in cui è affondata. In questi quattro minuti - e mi assumo la responsabilità di quel che dico - la nave ha già preso acqua".

    A confermate la tesi di Costantino ci sarebbero le immagini video, dove si vede l'albero in verticale prima tutto acceso e poi spento, tranne la lampadina in testa che prende energia da una batteria. Se la nave è andata in black out vuol dire che sarebbe stata l'acqua imbarcata a causare il corto circuito.

    Per evitare il naufragio, ha continuato l'amministratore delegato, "era inopportuno fare, come ho letto, un party. Non quella sera. Bisognava blindare lo scafo e la coperta chiudendo tutte le porte e portelli, dopo aver messo gli ospiti nel punto di riunione della nave come da procedura in emergenza. Poi accendere i motori e tirare su l'ancora o sganciarla automaticamente, mettere la prua al vento e mandare giù la chiglia. La mattina dopo sarebbero ripartiti a danno zero". Ha rimarcato che "sono stati fatti degli errori". E ha aggiunto: "Fra l'arrivo di una burrasca e l'imbarco dell'acqua c'è un mondo. Si dovevano fare una serie di attività per evitare di trovarsi in quella situazione. Io come comandante della nave mi sarei spostato, ma se anche per qualche motivo avessi dovuto restare lì, avrei gestito quelle condizioni meteo che poi, diciamolo, non erano così pazzesche. Del resto il comandante della Sir Robert, accanto, è riuscito a gestire tutto senza problemi".
  14. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Can't say that I disagree with Giovanni's basic perspective here. Watching Cup trials in Barcelona showed really nasty weather in the region.
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Here is the automatic iOS translation


    Everything that has been done reveals a very long sum of errors" - Giovanni Costantino, founder and managing director of The italian sea group, the listed company that owns the assets of Perini navi di Viareggio that built the Bayesian in 2008 - told Corrierere. "People didn't have to be in the cabins, the boat wasn't supposed to be at anchor. And then why didn't the crew know about the upcoming disruption? The passengers reported something absurd, and that is that the storm came unexpectedly, all of a sudden. It's not true. It was all predictable. I have the weather maps here in front of me. Suddenly nothing came. Ask yourself: why was no Porticello fisherman out that night? A fisherman reads the weather conditions and a ship doesn't? The disturbance was fully legible in all weather maps. You couldn't help but know."

    Constantine is not indicted that sailing jewel that he calls "one of the safest boats in the world". Practically "unsinkable. Of course, unless you board water. There is no other explanation." For the CEO of The Italian sea group, the shipwreck of Palermo would certainly have represented a zero risk if the correct maneuvers had been made if situations had not intervened that compromised the stability of the ship. "The boat - he noted - was at anchor. At some point the anchor loses her grip and she moves dragged by the wind pushing her by taking her in her belly. He pushes it for four minutes that we define as a wheel and puts it in the position where it sank. In these four minutes - and I take responsibility for what I say - the ship has already taken water."

    To confirm Constantine's thesis there would be the video images, where you can see the tree vertically first all on and then off, except for the bulb in the head that takes energy from a battery. If the ship went black out, it means that it would have been the water on board that caused the short circuit.

    To avoid the shipwreck, the CEO continued, "it was inappropriate to have, as I read, a party. Not that evening. The hull and blanket had to be secured by closing all the doors and doors, after putting the guests in the ship's meeting point as per the emergency procedure. Then turn on the engines and pull up the anchor or unhook it automatically, put the bow in the wind and send the keel down. The next morning they would start at zero damage." He remarked that "mistakes have been made." And he added: "Between the arrival of a storm and the boarding of water there is a world. A number of activities had to be done to avoid being in that situation. I as commander of the ship would have moved, but even if for some reason I had to stay there, I would have managed those weather conditions which then, let's face it, were not so crazy. After all, the commander of Sir Robert, next door, managed to manage everything without any problems."
  16. Maritna_ra

    Maritna_ra Active Member

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    today I'm just reading newspapers..it's August...
    About what you said, in another interview he stated that some Perini yachts have withstood hurricanes like Katrina, reasserting the fact that a brief storm, such as the one that struck the Italian coast, should not have been enough to cause a sinking...if proper procedures were followed.
  17. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad Senior Member

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    I agree that it seems awfully quick. However, it's not unusual for the external saloon doors to be left open at anchor or dock, even with A/C running in all interior spaces, which could allow an unsurvivable rate of water ingress if the vessel is held in that position. Depending on angle of heel, quantity of water already shipped, additional openings (damaged or otherwise), internal arrangement of bulkheads, doors opened/closed between WT spaces, etc sinking could occur extremely quickly.

    Main gensets may have failed but vital systems including nav lights and emergency lighting would have alternative power sources for this very reason.
  18. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Costantino, as founder and managing director of the group that owns Perini navi, has a big dog in this fight. And he's in full throttle CYA mode. In my opinion he went too far too fast. I don't disagree with some of it. But the facts need to come out. That being said, no matter what happened I do agree the captain's statement that it came out of nowhere is somewhat dubious.

    I don’t know if it’s been mentioned here in any previous post, but the wife of the owner was interviewed in the hospital. She stated they were awakened in their stateroom when the boat began heeling over. She said they were not initially concerned, but that all changed when the windows were shattered.
    d_meister likes this.
  19. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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  20. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Yes and especially since monohull sailboats have a heavy keel to keep ‘em upright while sailing but the same heavy keel will drag the boat down much faster than a non-keeled sailboat like a catamaran if breached or capsized.
    No idea what the keel weight was on this boat, but on smaller sailboats easily 20% to 30% of the boats displacement.