Detroit Diesel 16v92TA

Hi,

Gary you are forgetting the really early one a 6-110

Photo came from a website called Surplusman.com

http://www.surplusman.com/Browse.php?menuid=110&catid=&imgOnly=0&pg=7

(Mods if this photo breaks the forum rules please delete it)

Talk to CODOG , he's the Daddy on this sort of thing.

Capt Garry is right about parts also.

Dave

Yep, had two like that but a bit rustier
Dave

You got me on that one, I do not believe I have ever seen anything in the 110 series or if I did I must have assumed it was 149 or 92.

But I have seen a 3-53 and a 1-53

Remember the old 50-series two cylinder gen-sets also?

The 16v92 is two seperate blocks and two cranks bolted together. You can't take 2 8V92s and bolt them together as there are front and back blocks.
The 16s I have run burn 140 GPH @ 2000 rpm.

Golden fox:

No mention of AirSeps among all the naysayers here.
AirSeps are a bolt-on, relatively inexpensive, after-market system which induces a slightly negative crankcase pressure (as opposed to the stock configuration which induces a slightly positive pressure), thus putting a stop to these engines drooling oil all over themselves.

Next fact: 92-series kits (piston, rings, liner) are still around. And will be. Not sure as of this moment, but the Reliabuilt (re-man) parts from DD carried a one-year warrantee, while new DD parts carried only a six-month warrantee.

Detroit Diesel two-stroke engines are super-easy to rebuild, hence they are inexpensive. A big-block MTU W5 will cost more than the 16-92s you are considering.

The DD16V-92TAs are decent engines. And, the various four-stroke motors mentioned--Cat & MTU among them--have had their own occasional problem children.

You made a very very wise choice. The 16v92's have a very short life between rebuilds 1,000 hours.

I agree with the other person on the remanufactured parts. I just sat for 3 weeks waiting on a rebuild on a 12v71 that was rebuilt less then 6 months ago and 150hours ago and it had a dead cylinder. The bad parts- the reliabilt cylinder head had a bent valve and cracked seat on #4, #4 right bank had a split injector tip, #4 cylinder kit was wiped, #1,2,3 cylinder kits showed unusual wear, and 4 other bad injectors out of 12......

If your diesel only had a 1000 hours between rebuilds then I would find a another mechanic. I would not repower with two strokes but there not bad engines. but not every mechanic knows how to rebuild them. If you go to a shop and stars talking about two strokes, they will look at you and say. I think old jim knows how to work on them. lol Been there done that. I have 8-71 and love them they work like a charm. I would rebuild them in my boat, but would not pull them out and buy rebuilt ones and install back in my boat. so if it's not broke leave it alone

8-71's will last a long time between rebuilds as will the entire 71 series. But in comparison to modern 4 stroke diesels they don't hold a candle to lifespan, cleanliness, noise, and power to weight ratio. If you already have them in the boat I would generally leave them and rebuild them when the time comes. I would never recommend rebuilding a 92 series in today's day and age. The 92's will not and were not designed that way. They have rubber o-rings for head gaskets and so forth. They were designed for the US military during Vietnam to make more power then the 71s with a much shorter lifespan and designed to be easily rebuilt in comparison. The standard lifespan of every 12-92 that I have encountered has been no more then 1,000 hours and that is typical. I do know of one customer whose 12v92's went 2500hrs before a rebuild, that is the exception.

I simply can't believe that's true.

I can't think of any boats I know of that got 12v92's that needed overhaul within 1,000 hours on new or properly reman'ed engines. There's no reason that 92 series engines should be less than 5000 hour engines between major overhauls, provided the throttles aren't run to the stops from a cold start every time the owner has the boat out.

There are plenty of trucks built with 92 series engines that went 1/2 to 3/4 of a million miles without a major overhaul, and I daresay trucks get more severe duty in terms of cold starts, hot starts, variable loads, etc.

At 55 miles an hour, 1,000 hours would be 55,000 miles - less than six months between rebuilds?

Here in the northeast, dump trucks, transit mixes, and other heavy hauling vehicles were built with 12v92 engines, and they also did not need overhaul every 1,000 hours.

Early 92s had some issues with cooling and blower seals, but those issues were resolved with later engines and rebuild kits. Just pay attention to the main bearings on the rebuilds.

Truck 92's were not hot rodded like the marine engines were. Especially the Johnson and Towers engines where they threw tons of boost at them and 140MM injectors to push 1150hp out of them. Start asking sportfish guys what kind of hours they normally go. I ran a 54' Hatteras with DDEC 12v92's 1997, the boat was spotless and captain maintained. They were rebuilt at 972hrs and on the seatrial with 1988 total hours, blew one motor again. These were rebuilt by a detroit diesel dealer. I ran a 58' Striker that was a 1991, it had major overhauls done on both engines 8 times. Ask around on the 12v92's and people will tell you. Even the 12v71's don't go 5,000 hours. Their typical lifespan is around 3500 hrs and 5,000 hours when they're in the right right situation

Hi,

Having a 30 yr history in Engines starting with Detroits and Cummins I agree with Seafarer.

Short life span only comes from high revs at initial start up and no cylinder lube, extended periods at WOT and general over running of service intervals one of which is critically important to a Detroit 2 stroke is Lube Samples as Fuel Leakage into the lube is an all too frequent occurrence owing to the many feed and return lines under the valve covers.

To refute an earlier comment: The head gasket doesn't exist as such for a 2 stroke Detroit, each liner top has a fire ring and around the outer extremity is a square section o ring that arrives as a round thing and is very difficult to get to sit right, grease used to do in the old days super glue prolly does ok today.

The worst Truck engine of all time has to be the Cummins 555. The in between engine that went nowhere except to the auction house after so many operators went down from using it.

I put a call in to a New York metro area Detroit dealer and reman shop (name redacted to prevent looking like an ad). They have been in the Detroit rebuilding business for more years than I can remember (back when they were dealers for GM Diesel). I was told later 92's being reman'ed with reman parts today should expect about 2,500 hours between top end maintenance and 4,500-5,000 hours between major overhaul under specified load and maintenance.

They haven't seen early (pre-1982) 92 series engines that haven't been upgraded with liners, water pumps, injectors, "soft" lower compression rings and oil rings to control the crankcase overpressurizing issue, silicone head o-rings, and a few other fixes done to them already in "at least ten years" and 92 series engines are becoming rather uncommon except for high load standby applications (generators and compressors).

From my own experience, lube oil & filters need changing at least as frequently as specified, injector timing needs to be done regularly, oil analysis needs to be done regularly, ensuring the blower seals are not leaking is critical, and there are other maintenance items that I am forgetting right now in order to ensure life.

Battlewagons are too-typically fired up and firewalled, run hard for long periods, and every maintenance interval is "stretched" as long as the fluids are topped up. All of which would explain the short lifespan you call "typical" for 92 series engines in general, but isn't.

The 555 among others. Even with perfect maintenance, they were unpredictable in their breakdowns.

Some engines get a bad rap from neglect or abuse, being labeled as inadequate or unreliable because someone figured the cost & time of preventive maintenance adds up too quickly.

Speaking of the devil. I personally know of a Cummins 555 that went 32,000 hours in a lobster boat without ever having anything in the short block rebuilt. The owner/operator went through 5 turbo rebuilds and had the heads removed, rebuilt and put back on 6 times, but never ever touched the lower end (cylinder kits, etc.)

Every 12v92 I have seen has gone 1k hours, not because the entire engine was worn out, but because of a catastrophic failure. I have seen an o-ring go bad and hydrolock a cylinder and once you have the engine apart you might as well rebuild it. I have seen an injector go bad (many times) and wash a liner out. I have seen the blower seal issue. I have seen all of the issues. The only way they run and run well is if they're used almost all of the time.

If they sit between start ups for 2 weeks here and there......it's a matter of time before an o-ring goes and fills a cylinder with water. If they're not run at cruise a lot, the big 140 mm injectors glaze the cylinder walls, if the coolant isn't changed with the right coolant and often enough it eats the o-rings. Age itself eats the o-rings. 10 years and the rubber o-rings are hard and one tears and fills a cylinder with coolant. There are just so many more issues with that motor over a 71 series.

Hi,

Capt J , Cummins must be interested to read that or must be interested in giving the owner a lifetime achiever award as it exceeds any published and otherwise experienced details by an unprecedented amount.

I also have to ask if while the heads were re done 6 times and the Turbos only 5 what was the difference between the head and turbo time?

Did it happen to drop a valve : An old 555 weakness

Oh and by the way: What is a 144mm Injector, All Detroits I have and still deal with have an N Prefix to their numbers.

The heads and turbo's were redone because they were worn out and needed to be rebuild. I don't know if it ever dropped a valve. The motor was run a maximum of 1400 rpms it's entire life and was in a lobster trap pulling boat. Like any commercial boat, the guy fixed things as they broke and that was it.


A 140mm injector is the size...... 140MM of fuel. I don't know the prefix and Johnson Towers went as far as putting 160MM of fuel, which the only way the motor kept up with the injectors was at cruise. At idle they didn't meter the fuel properly and properly atomize it and had a tendancy to glaze the cylinder walls. 12v71's come with a 115mm injector for example, so do 8v71TI' whereas the T's come with 90mm and naturally aspirated 60mm injectors. Detroit Diesel used probably a dozen different types of injectors for some motors with the same size injector tip such as 115mm's.

Everything you're talking about comes from top-end neglect (or lack of maintenance).

injector timing (and testing) is a regular maintenance item on 92 series engines, and it is something often left undone because of the extra $1k in cost, but it causes catastrophic failure when ignored. Coolant barrier O-rings would be replaced when the heads are pulled at 2500 hours, instead of left until they fail. Blower seals are something that can't be ignored "until the next maintenance" or else they push oil right out and into the combustion chamber. Lube oil needs to be changed ON TIME, along with high quality filters, or else fuel gets into the oil and kills the lubricity.

None of the failures you're describing are the engines' fault, but the owners', engineers', or yards' fault for improper maintenance.

They're reliable as heck if you do proper preventive maintenance.