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What should I look for in an ocean going trawler?

Discussion in 'General Trawler Discussion' started by Emerson, Feb 18, 2010.

  1. Emerson

    Emerson New Member

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    I'm waiting to hear back from my patent attorney right now on a technology that I intend to license for a solid amount of money (I'll be leaving my J-O-B), and expect to have as much as 10 million to spend on yachting in the next 3-5 years. I sat down yesterday and figured out what I wanted out of a boat.

    I would like to buy a trawler and outfit it as a combined research/ pleasure boat. I intend to go to New Zealand to work on the invasive mammal problem.

    I will need a stable boat, lest I spend all my money replacing glass wear. and I'd like to have about 5,000 NM in range so I can go from Seattle to Hawaii to New Zealand (after realizing my dream of meandering through the inside passage).

    As for facilities on the boat I'm going to need about 400 sq ft for a main lab, and at least four 80 sq ft. auxiliary spaces to keep traps and cages and to keep as a clean lab for tissue culture and as a cold storage room, the large lab and two of the small ones will need to be 10 feet high.

    As for the yacht side of things I'd like a nice galley, a nice Salon and a dining room. Four staterooms (one for me and three for any colleagues I can hire on) with en suit heads, captains quarters, and room for 5 additional crew members (will that be enough?). These spaces and the pilot house should be built to a yacht level of finish,

    Just looking at how big production boats are I was thinking I'd need a boat that is about 135' long,35' beam, with a 10' draft. so some questions.

    1) Does it seem like I could fit all of this in a boat that big, along with two tenders, one of which can hold and land an Argo or similar vehicle? (say a 15' and a 22' landing craft)

    2) The scientific equipment and reagents will be about 1 million dollars of that 10 million, could I get a boat that is big enough for me for 4 million (I read that I should only spend half of what I can on yachting on the boat)?

    3) Should I be looking for a yacht maker, or should I be looking for a used trawler and refitting it?

    4) If I want to be able to handle icy waters (You can bet I'll want to visit Antarctic waters) should I get a steel yacht? How thick should the hull be?

    5) Should I have active fin stabilizers, the zero speed gyroscopic stabilizers? Just some steel fins welded onto the sides?

    6) How much freezer room would I need for passages like that?

    7) I this the forum where I should have posted this question?

    I look forward to seeing what you have to say, goodbye!
  2. Emerson

    Emerson New Member

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    Looking around on this forum at the prices of yachts it looks like I'm way low on price. Can anyone give me a rough estimate on the price of the right size of boat with a low level of fit and finish? I suspect that Oak interior wood work and painted decks are what I'd be after. I'd like dual screws in case something goes terribly wrong with one of them (and because I love symmetry, two screws one left handed and one right handed). My guess is that I can make it 20 M in 5-7 years, and justify it because it is a business expense.
  3. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    I could stretch this 20' and lengthen the house. Good efficient fast boat with a good ride for down in the Southern Ocean. Yacht grade fit and finish about $17MM in aluminium.

    Hennings Boat 127_Linesplan.jpg
  4. Emerson

    Emerson New Member

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    Doesn't look like it has much space aboard ... are you trying to tell me something I'm not getting?

    Fast is not what I need, I expect a very long voyage down. Stable is worth a whole lot more than fast. I read a lot ... 10 hours a day in journal articles alone.
  5. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I think you are looking at a lot of boat when the list of all the spaces you need are considered. The 10 ft high lab itself will probably not happen in an existing structure, the space above the deck heads in cabins is usually used for ducts and cables, to get a space such as you describe will probably have to be specially built.

    There are not many deep sea trawlers that are twin screw either.

    For the bucks you have to spend and the shopping list you have I don't think you will find the ideal vessel off the shelf, there will need to be a compromise somewhere along the line.

    I would suggest that you look for an ex Oil Patch Boat that can be converted to your needs. You might have to accept a lower standard of finish in the cabins to get everything done cheaper but on a limited budget you need to get the best bang for your buck that you can.

    What about something like this: http://ships-for-sale.com/research_catamaran.htm
  6. Emerson

    Emerson New Member

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    Thanks for the reply K1W1.

    The two screw thing is eccentricity, and not necessary if it is out of character.

    I figured that I would have to build an extra high laboratory space, but biological hazard control systems are big.

    I can't quite get a good read on the vessel you posted, I can't figure out how much space there is in it. I don't know about a survey vessel, but I think it is for oceanography.

    How easy is it to buy a hull and tear off the super structure to replace it? ... Stupid question, nothing is easy ... Is there a strong reason not to rip off the super structure and replace it?

    It seems like most of the trawlers that I can readily find for sale are being sold with a huge amount of equipment that I don't need.

    In your estimation how much boat do I need?

    I will freely admit that my estimated price point was derived from reading about the whaler that Bob Barker purchased for the whale wars guys. If we treat the space within the lab as unfinished (because I will be hiring a lab contractor not a boat contractor) how much would a refit to explorer yacht spec run me? I'm not looking for something that would pass as a charter number in the Med. just something that wouldn't be called "rustic".

    http://www.wright-international.com/wil1797-iceclasssterntrawler.php looks like the kind of vessel I want, although with the dollar as lousy as it is I think it might be a bit on the steep side right now. Of course any vessel I see now will be purely academic because I haven't got the money yet, and shouldn't count my chickens before they hatch and spend my current savings on a down payment.
  7. Jorge Lang

    Jorge Lang Senior Member

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    Emerson,

    I think this would be the way to go. If you do a little research on m/y Plan B (ex. Flinders), you can see what a conversion can do to an old military or commercial vessel.
  8. Riknpat

    Riknpat Senior Member

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    It might be too much boat but the 180' Lady Chebucto is, I think, still available. Canadian Fisheries Coastal Patrol, 8,500 NM range at 16 knots(!), room galore. Ice class. Built like a brick s**thouse. Pricey to gussy it up as a yacht but might be workable without doing much. I think they want
    $2M or best offer. Just a passing thought.
  9. PropBet

    PropBet Senior Member

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    I'd guess that you'd be well off to consider a conversion, based on the fact that you have some very specific requirements with your research and lab equipment and sizing.

    Have a look at Harbour Yacht Services. We've worked with them in the past and for being a small yard, they have an incredible ability to turn out some rather impressive conversions in both steel and aluminum.

    http://www.hys-yachts.com/index.htm

    I was looking on their site for a boat they were mid progress on when I was last at their yard named "Anda" which was a 42Meter steel / expo style "Gentleman's Boat" however I don't see it now, so you may want to inquire about it.

    If you're going to icy water, I'd highly consider a steel boat over aluminum. For what you're describing, picking up a deal on a donor boat and taking it through conversion (about a 12 month process) may be an ideal scenario for you based on your initial requirements and considerations.

    Good luck in your search.
    It is indeed an adventure.
  10. travler

    travler Senior Member

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    THERE is a boat in seattle called norseman 2 i belive is prety close to what you are looking for PM ME and i will give you the phone number of the people in the know

    good luck travler
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Am I wrong in thinking that the invasive mammal you refer to is homo-sapian?
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a hard time looking at this seriously given several things said and your profile.

    Biography:
    I've worked on charters in the 40-70' range in Alaskas inside passage
    Location:
    Homer, AK
    Interests:
    Falconry
    Occupation:
    Deckhand
    I'd recommend eyes and ears open and wait until the money comes into your hands before you even think about spending it. If you happen to get anywhere near the money you're expecting you'll be amazed at how many people will help you part with it. You might want to spend some time with the Sea Shepherd or Cousteau organizations to get a better feel for what's needed and involved before you shop. BTW, just in case this post comes off wrong I want to state that I'm not mocking. Dreams are a wonderful thing, and getting the opportunity to fulfill them can be amazing. You just want to become expert in a lot of areas for this one before you plunk down your money. Good luck.
  12. Emerson

    Emerson New Member

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    I am not sure what you are referring too NYCap. I only work in the summer, perhaps that clears it up for you.

    Sea Shepherds and Cousteau are both Marine Biology focused groups and I am interested more in what is on land. The invasive mammals I was thinking of are rats, cats, dogs, weasels, and opossums. I really wouldn't know what to do under the water, I did my doctoral work up in Fairbanks studying mortality in Ermin populations, translates well to rats, not so well to whales.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That clears up alot. Thanks. Good luck.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    What you're looking for is that Shadow boat they have for sale in Fort Lauderdale. it is a converted commercial boat. It has a very large garage that you could partition however you'd like to suit your needs with yacht like accomodations. BUT, for the requirements you have you're looking for a commercial vessel and can be well within $4 million as long as you're not looking to make a yacht out of a commercial vessel (you could still make a nice galley and staterooms).
  15. Emerson

    Emerson New Member

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    I looked at the review of the Y-E-S ship and really liked the look of it, I figured if it had suites instead of the helicopter pad it would be glorious. Where are the ship yards that are making these commercial vessels?
  16. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Before getting too deeply involved in your undertaking I would check with the DOC in NZ.

    NZ is rightly concerned with any outsiders fronting up and doing anything they consider non pc, especially in the environment.
  17. Emerson

    Emerson New Member

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    Indeed, I have strong academic connections at AUT and VU of Wellington, and I wouldn't be doing anything too un-PC. It would be mostly study, I haven't got any solutions for that problem yet.

    On the subject of Norsemen II is that one yacht or a line of yachts?
  18. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    North American Shipyards, a.k.a. Edison Choest makes IMO the best of them. Halter Marine, a.k.a. Trinity made a bunch of them, they weren't flash hot though. Bloodworth Bond made some good ones. You can find a bunch of old mud boats in the 180' range for sale. Tidewater, the worlds largest work bvoat company always has a bunch for sale, but I wouldn't recommend buying one of theirs, when Tidewater gets rid of a boat, it's pretty much shot. TriCo marine takes good care of their equipment as does Edison Choest, if you can find one of their boats for sale it wouls be worth looking at, but the problem with old OSVs is they are meant to be cargo vessels, comfort and efficiency are not on the radar of the design specs. The only thing they are concerned with is the size of the P-tanks and mud tanks and how much you can haul on deck. P tanks and the gear in the mud tanks are very heavy and down in the bottom of the boat. When you remove all of that and open up the space, you start quickly running into stability issues. They're also big wide square bottom boats with a very high prismatic coefficient so they are slow and require a lot of horsepower (read fuel) and seriously pound into the seas. These boats don't cruise through the water, they bludgeon their way through. Survey boats generally have a better shape to them as do cable layers, but cable layers are typically larger, in the 240'+ range. Fitting out old work boats to yacht standards on the interior is no big deal really, it's just a matter of money. If you want them faired to yacht standards on the outside.... good luck. Most of the conversions don't bother and just put on a high quality industrial finish paint job. Fairing one out alone will cost you twice what the boat does.

    If you don't care about speed, old Beauport is a decent girl, but personally, I wouldn't want anything less than 12 knots and prefer 18 for trans oceanic passages. 12 lets you stay in front of most weather and 18 lets you get away from it.
  19. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    You know when you play Lotto Garage (all boys do this) and you think Ferrari and Astons.

    The other day, someone in Wales won £56 Million on Euro Lotto. I did the big think, what would I buy?

    I love Trawler Yachts but the boat that covers all bases and can be handled by just a couple was the Swan 75' from Finland. Rubbish website by the way.

    Nauta make a nice boat, the 65' ketch is an old mate for cruiseing, everything is just there, at arms length, no hunting around for this and that.

    Rag and Stick I know but it does what it says on the tin.
  20. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Trawler

    This bears a similarity to a yacht built in New Zealand a few years ago. It has traveled many oceans and last I heard it was for sale. The owner is a very experienced sailor. The hull was left in original Aluminium finish.
    I will do some more research and revert if I find anymore details.