Click for Walker Click for Abeking Click for Nordhavn Click for Abeking Click for Glendinning

Utopia IV sinks... a fuel tanker???

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Pascal, Dec 25, 2021.

  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,987
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    ais not working? Tis da Bahama mon ...
    rtrafford likes this.
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    10,510
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    So, In a few months, I have to find a way to collect a couple cups of coffee.
    Just remember, Sugar, light on the cream.
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,987
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    In any case it s interesting to see how utopia IV is still stuck in Nassau. You d think the owner would want the boat brought back to FTL for repairs.
  4. kevin8tor

    kevin8tor New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Northern Chesapeake Bay
    What's the likelihood that Bahamian authorities are detaining the vessel to complete their investigation?
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,109
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Show me a collision report where only one boat was blamed? Typically one gets the primary blame but the second always gets some. Did they see the boat approaching? Did they call out to the other boat? A lot of questions to be answered. Faster boat hitting back part of boat sure speaks to fault. Boat accidents are just generally evaluated far differently than auto. Ironically though, in even auto accidents, where criminally there is only one driver charged, often in civil court the "innocent" driver is assessed some blame. And good attorneys will get 50% of the tickets thrown out.

    I do feel there is a lot that we have no idea about, things going on both boats. There will be some revealing information from the interviews of crew members from both.

    Of course, there will be multiple determinations. The CG will look at Captain fault. The governments will assess blame. Then insurers will fight to get a different court to determine apportionment of blame. Insurers may be the ones to uncover more of what was taking place on board as well.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,109
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    And to get paid for cleanup and damage and more by both boats. I wouldn't be surprised to find there are some high fines.
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,058
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The nav lights are clearly on in the picture of the tanker submerged to the deck.

    The tanker should get none of the blame as it was being overtaken by Utopia AND couldn't get out of Utopia's way if it wanted to (too slow).
    cleanslate likes this.
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    10,510
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    So, 3 coffees?
    I'll be buzzing from the caffeine.
  9. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,226
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    They had a plan to fix it on Tuesday...
  10. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    stuart,fl.
    zero blame on the tanker.....Is there a Balize or Bahamian requirement for AIS or radar??The yacht was going fast w/ improper lookouts with homemade visibility problems....3 or 4
    basic Rules of the Road answer any doubt..
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    10,510
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Rule #2 was not practiced by either boat.
    Rule #5 was not practiced by either boat.
    Rule #7 was not practiced by either boat.
    Rule #8 was not practiced by either boat.
    Rule #17 was not practiced by either boat.

    Before anybody starts broadcasting ammonia, re-read rules #2 & #5 again, slower.
    In particular, the first two words in rule #5.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,987
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    “Look-out
    . Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.”

    so are you saying that when running a vessel with no visibility aft, a crew member should be assigned to stand watch at the stern just in case some idiot closes in from behind at high speed? How about just accepting the idiot running 20kts at night should open his eyes?

    Admin edit: covid content removed
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2022
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    10,510
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Da book states "Every Vessel".
    I'm not saying anything new.
    How this is preformed is up to how you want to follow the rule; extra crew, radar or good luck.

    And YES, If somebody was looking astern either with eye balls or radar, MAYBE an action could of avoided the collision.

    History has shown, it is everybodys fault when a collision occurs.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  14. Detroit_dripper

    Detroit_dripper New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    South Florida to Great Lakes
    § 83.05 Look-out (Rule 5).
    Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.


    IF (BiG IF) the tanker had sounded his horn, flashed a spotlight at the approaching Utopia,fired a flare gun and squawked on the VHF to alert the Utopia THEN it might not be held with any responsibility. Remains to be seen what actions they took.

    Yes you are at some fault if you allow some idiot to hit you even if you have the right of way. I've always applied this fact to my over 50 years of motorcycle riding.
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    10,510
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Or,, even moved out of the way.
    Yep, I straddled a motor in my younger years. 360 observations to stay alive. Same attitude applies in aqua space.
  16. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,870
    Location:
    Montreal, Qc, Canada
    Utopia IV has been towed to Miami while the investigation is still ongoing.
  17. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,987
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Towed? Damage was at the bow and could have been patched up. Odd
  18. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,226
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    I was thinking the similar thought, wondering if the "tow it to Miami" order came down from insurance...
  19. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,987
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Or the Bahamian Port Authority...
    Capt Ralph and rtrafford like this.
  20. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    10,510
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    I am wondering why the islands government let it leave their waters pending any investigation. Or it indeed was moved to an local secure place and not Miami.