Click for Westport Click for Cross Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Burger Click for Burger

Tides versus PSS for 2 1/4 inch shafts

Discussion in 'Props, Shafts & Seals' started by Rusty Mayes, Jan 23, 2021.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Rusty Mayes, Jan 23, 2021
    #1
    Rusty Mayes

    Rusty Mayes Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Sanfransico Bay area
    Does anyone have good advice regarding shaft seals IMG_2638.jpg IMG_2641.jpg
    These PSS seals are 6 years old and were adjusted in July of 2019 about 60 hrs running time since. The Starboard seal leaks at speed 16oo and above on sea trial. PSS recommends assembly replacement at 6 years and these are right at 6 years old. The yard foreman assigned to my WO says he sees them last up to 15 or 20 years and suggests perhaps cleaning and adjustment based on over all condition might just be in order. The mechanic has yet to see them. I removed the battery shelf and cleaned the shafts up and moved the rotor back so he can inspect them and make his recommendation. I had Tides Marine Sure Seals on my 44 and for five years and 400 hrs never had a drip out of them and I liked the idea that should I have had an occasion to replace a seal I could just install the one in the spare carrier on the shaft. I'm interested in your experience as to life limits on the PSS or whether you might consider replacing with Tides Marine seals.
    Also I'm considering installing shaft bonding brushes in leu of maintaining shaft anodes. I'm in brackish water in a well maintained marina and have the boat bottom cleaned by diver quarterly. Id love too hear any thoughts you have.
    PS, The boat is not mine yet. The next time I have occasion to post pics of my ER, it will be clean as a whistle.
    Thanks Guys
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  2. Capt J, Jan 23, 2021
    #2
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,534
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I am having PSS installed on a boat that had tides and spun one of the tide seals crimping the hoses and frying the entire assembly (which I've had happen on 5 different boats, maybe more). I have had good luck with PSS. Sounds like you just have tension issue with yours. Yours look REALLY crusty and S/S corroded for only 6 years old.

    As for zincs, DON'T remove the shaft zincs. Each boat has a certain amount of zinc to create a certain amount of protection. Too much zinc is not good and too little zinc is not good either.
  3. Capt Ralph, Jan 23, 2021
    #3
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,443
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    In your pictures I can see some scuffing and wear lines in the composite surface and a stain or two.
    I also see the set screw mark on the shaft and the bellows has not expanded.
    The PSS (and old LasDrop) installations will chatter and leak when dirty. Water stains (pollution and tanic ) and silt/salt will cause this.
    While in the water, I fold a length of W/D 1000 grit and sandwich the paper between the contact surfaces. With water coming, I can lightly polish the contact surfaces and clear these stains & debris. Don't get carried away, just evenly all around a few times. You may feel the drag reduce some. The older bellows can use some more tension after 6 years also, especially in cold water.
    On the hill, Maybe some fine water based lapping compound, spinning the steel color by hand against the composite surface.
    Hand polishing with dry paper I never tried and not a fan of recommending it.
    Cleaning well, some impeller or water based greased on the surfaces, lil more tension on the bellows and lock er down.
    Remember to keep the shaft clean and lube the shaft so the internal O ring inside of the steel collar does not get damaged or deform when sliding up/down the shaft.
    File down that set screw burr on the shft to help that O ring also.
    Dial out the collar when the set screws are tightened down. No mater what is said, There is room for the collar to tighten down and not be perfect square with the shaft.
    There should be two set screws per hole. The second screw (just snug) locks down the first.

    Also consider a nylon or marelon injector fitting. Looks like your steel hose barb has a rust stain on it. Where there is rust, there is a weak component.
    These have sunk boats before.
    The big clamps could be renewed now also. Please consider using Aba or good T bold clamps down here. You may sleep better.
  4. mapism, Jan 23, 2021
    #4
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,167
    Location:
    Sardinia
    Based on your photos, I don't think you need to replace those seals.
    Just follow Capt Ralph suggestions, and I bet they'll last another 6 years or so.

    BUT, if and when you should replace them, I'd rather stick to PSS than switch to Tides.
    And in the event of a replacement, you might as well consider this stuff.
    That's proper commercial/military grade construction: no rubber bellows at all, fire resistant, and meant to last for decades on boats that clock several thousands of hours each year.
    The manufacturer is actually much more focused on larger shaft diameters (up to 12"!), and I'm sure that even if their webpage mentions 40mm as minimum size, it's not available anymore.
    But maybe 2" 1/4 are still available - it wouldn't hurt checking, anyway.

    I see on their website that they are distributed in the US by Engine Room Engineering in Ft.Lauderdale, but I know nothing about them.
    Maybe someone else here does?
    All I can testify is that the seals are rock solid, and in another league vs. both PSS and Tides.
  5. Rusty Mayes, Jan 23, 2021
    #5
    Rusty Mayes

    Rusty Mayes Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Sanfransico Bay area
    Thanks for the response. I measured the total dimension of the bellow with the rotor slid back and sitting overnight. The bellow is compressed about 1 3/8 inch form the dimension new. I have decided to replace the bellows since the boat is on the hard. I am comfortable with the condition of the carbon seal and I will be replacing the barb fitting as the kit comes with a new one. I should be set for a few years.
    Rusty
  6. Capt Ralph, Jan 23, 2021
    #6
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,443
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Very good.
    Don't forget to clean up the set screw marks and any scratches on the shaft and get new O rings for inside the collar. Lube the shaft up on re-install.
    Square up the collar and go fishing.
    Stay well & safe,
    rc
  7. mapism, Jan 24, 2021
    #7
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,167
    Location:
    Sardinia
    You certainly will.
    While you are at that, you might consider also fitting a T along the cooling hose, connecting it to the onboard fresh water system.
    Not directly of course, but with a small valve.
    This way, whenever you know that the boat is not going to be used for some time, rinsing the whole seal internally with fresh water is just a matter of opening that valve for a minute or two.
    Actually, whenever I know that I'm not going to use my boat for a while, I like to open that right before docking maneuvers and keep it open till I'm done with that, to rinse everything with pressurized fresh water while the shaft is rotating both ways.
    Call me maniac if you wish, but I do believe that this is one of the reasons why my seals are 16 years old and still bone dry.