This Captain needs a new ride.

Now THAT'S a captain screwing up. The evidence is all right there. Easy inlet that he should be familiar with, calm clear day, charted and marked, radar and a chart plotter. He shortcut the inlet and got caught. Good sounding website, but this is what he'll now be known for. Wouldn't be at all surprised if the insurance company comes after him for the better part of a million dollars.

My wife asked me the other day if I miss the boats since I retired. I told her not a bit, and knowing that my first mistake will ruin my life is why. That thought never left my mind while on board. Would not want to be this captain.

I happen to know of him very well and a few other occasions.

I think you left some words out of your sentence. I'd also be very interested in your view of Captain John Wampler's actions, considering your other thread.

go check out his website for a great laugh

Considering that I was quite successful for over 25 years, and made it to retirement without incident, I'd say you're wrong. But if you ever want to ruin a hobby, turn it into a profession. As a professional you must run every minute with the thought "What if". If you don't, and instead captain with the same care free attitude as you ran boats as an amateur, well Capt. John Wampler is now finding out what happens.

You don't consider a boat costing almost a million dollars a luxury yacht? Wish I had your bank account.

P.S. It's a safe bet he retired as of October 31st.

The way insurance companies are these days, it is going to be hard for him to be insured. They keep getting stricter and stricter and now ask if you've had any accidents or claims and to explain them. Kind of hard to explain this one.

I agree. My career was my passion but I still enjoy doing what I do most everyday. However, it's no longer a weekend passion/hobby for me at this point. I'd rather go do land based things on my days off. So I'd rather enjoy work everyday at the cost of my hobby/passion, than hate my job and luckily get out once a week on the water for my passion.

We made a very conscious decision to protect boating as our passion. We weren't ever planning on using our Captain's licenses for work. However, there were some purchases such as marina or dealership or things in the industry and we decided no on them as we didn't want boating to in any way be business for us.

I came into this business because it was my passion and my love for it. That's also what made me good at it. But doing the same thing every day also turns anything into just another day at the office. Fortunately I went in for a very diversified end of the business. Every day a different boat in a different place with different people, and no dock queens. If I wasn't running I wasn't there. Still though, after so many years, it's a job. Must say though that I never bored of the ladies. Some boats were spectacular.

This thread should bring up a revisit to the topic of insurance for transport and per diem captains. Anybody have it? Where I could find it, I found it prohibitively expensive. So I was never insured. The boats were insured, so the most I could be held liable for by the owner was the deductible, but if I got stupid I could easily have had his insurance company coming after me for the entire damage. Scary thought. The potential liability sobers you up real fast and can keep you awake at night. Even the deductible on many of the boats I ran would ruin me, but the whole nut would have bankrupted me for sure. Doing what you love is one thing, but losing everything you own is quite another. This here is a case where, if the captain isn't individually insured, I think he's in real trouble.

Ed, there was a discussion on the insurance topic in 2008 and 2009. There were excellent answers given then. As I just looked at it I did see you didn't like any of them. All I could add today is the same things said then. Umbrella, contract limiting your liability, errors and omissions, forming LLC or Corporation and insuring that way.

http://www.yachtforums.com/threads/insurance-for-freelance-captains.10005/

Yes I remember the discussions. A good independent captain might make around $80K a year, most make far less than that (like $10 to 30K). IMHO that doesn't leave a lot of room for insurance premiums and such . So I'm wondering if 7 years after that discussion what the new crop of independent captains are doing to protect themselves or do they still risk all they have on never making a mistake .

Marine Insurance

The Owner will provide a copy of a marine insurance policy with documentation designating the Captain and Crew as additionally insured parties to cover possible liabilities including, but not limited to, damages to the vessel, expenses related to injuries to the Captain or Crew, public liability and property damage.​

This is a typical clause of a captain's contract with an owner. A captain should require it. The captain should get a confirmation from the insurer.

On top of that I'd advise anyone providing services of any sort to do so through some type entity to limit liability, whether and LLC or Corporation.

Now, if any person has assets to protect against litigation, they should have some form of umbrella insurance, regardless of their profession, and as a captain be sure it includes coverage over and above anything covered by the owner's policy.

I'd suggest anyone going into any type business look at all their protection with an insurer and get at least some advice from an attorney.

I would have to disagree with your comment that most Independent Captains make between $10k and $30k per year. Others may have comments on that.

In almost 30 years in this business I've never seen a contract. Only 3 times was I even asked to show my license for recreational vessel work, and that was by insurance companies for long deliveries. Most of the work is one day jobs moving a boat from here to there, captaining for someone on the weekend or doing lessons. At least up here I'm one of very few who managed to make a full-time living. Most do it as a fill in aside their F/T job, and may work a few days per summer to pick up a little extra money. When that last thread was started day captains were making $100 to $150 per day, and there's only 8 weekends between July 4th and Labor Day (assuming no rain outs). I agree with all your 'shoulds'. The problem is that once all the 'shoulds' (like lawyers) are paid for, there's nothing left for the guy who's actually working. A lot of small boat owners depend on independent captains to teach them, and to keep them safe. I stayed in the business for them, but my risk was huge. This is why I don't recomend people get into this business. There will be many fewer boats in the 30' to 70' range sold if the buyer's only choices are take no lessons and you're on your own, or lay out $100K+ for a full-time captain that you may only use a half-dozen times each year. That's why I'm curious to find out what guys coming in are thinking or doing. I'd love to ask the captain that's the subject of this thread, but I'm sure he's been advised to stay very silent.

Well, obviously you're not going to do well working 8 weekends a year. That's a hobby or side job. The comment you made regarding $10k to $30k wasn't on the last thread, it was on this one. I have no idea what the rates were in 2008 and 2009. I just used current rates in my post.

Look, we know you've soured on the business. There are aspects of it I have problems with, problems with yacht owners and full time crews. But I've chosen to approach them my own way so I don't have them and my crew is treated in a way I consider right.

As to guys coming in, they don't come in being independent and having no customers. They come in working for someone and later, with experience, they may set up their own business. The vast majority of independent captains I'm aware of do far more than run boats. They manage certain boats year round and other on an as needed basis. They've managed to build businesses.

Obviously being an independent Captain in New York is far different than Florida. If one doesn't build a business with other responsibilities and tasks then it just doesn't support one full time. Seasonal businesses are very difficult. Typically one must find two offsetting seasonal businesses. However, if you can't get properly licensed, have written agreements or contracts of some sort or otherwise verify insurance, can't in some way protect yourself with an umbrella policy or something else, then it's not a business you should be in.

You're always talking about the risk of captains being sued and yet I haven't seen that. Unless he was doing something grossly negligent, such as operating while intoxicated or allowing a 10 year old to operate the boat, or if the captain misrepresented himself and wasn't licensed, I would not expect this captain to be sued. Where are the suits you're talking about? Even when captains are named in suits by third parties, they are not the primary target. Have you been sued? I know a lot of captains and don't know any who have been.

16 x $400= $6,400. Today's numbers.

"As to guys coming in, they don't come in being independent and having no customers. They come in working for someone and later, with experience, they may set up their own business. The vast majority of independent captains I'm aware of do far more than run boats. They manage certain boats year round and other on an as needed basis. They've managed to build businesses."

Really, how many independent captains do you think have apprentices they train? We pick up deckhands where we can find them. The pickings got so slim, because most responsible guys have full-time jobs, that I used to hire captains to run with me. Where do you think we get boats to manage? We pick them up as clients after running their boats. Most independent captains do it as a sideline. They absolutely do come in being independent with no customers. That's why I always recommend against hiring a captain on his first issue (5 years). Most come in talking a great game, get some work for owners who don't know enough to ask anything more than 'Do you have a license', and then they leave the business when they find out how hard it is to get enough business to make a living. I'll never forget the 50GT "independent captain" I hired as a mate for a run to Florida. He didn't think he needed to learn how to deckhand, because 'he's a captain'. He had a 50GT ticket that he qualified for by owning a 26 footer for a few years and probably took across the bay about 10 times each summer.

How many times have we seen threads started here by people looking to be yacht captains, and having near zero experience on boats.

"However, if you can't get properly licensed, have written agreements or contracts of some sort or otherwise verify insurance, can't in some way protect yourself with an umbrella policy or something else, then it's not a business you should be in."
Exactly, and that's going to impact a lot of boaters and the sale of a lot of boats. So basically the small boat market (30' to 70') is being written off.

"You're always talking about the risk of captains being sued and yet I haven't seen that. Unless he was doing something grossly negligent, such as operating while intoxicated or allowing a 10 year old to operate the boat, or if the captain misrepresented himself and wasn't licensed, I would not expect this captain to be sued."

This captain apparently was running the 60 footer solo, no 2nd set of eyes. He came out a calm, easy inlet that he should be very familiar with, in good weather, turned and ran over the jetty, dispite having a chart plotter, a radar and 2 eyes. We're not talking about a mechanical malfunction or a missing channel marker. This is gross negligence. Lesson one for captains: never shortcut a channel, and especially never shortcut an inlet unless you're absolutely sure there's water there. There's a reason the CG puts the markers where they do. The captain got grossly stupid. You think the boat owner's insurance company is going to take a hit of nearly a million dollars without looking to recoup? You think the yacht's owner is going to take probably a $70,000 hit for his deductible and not look to recoup?

P.S. The reason I haven't been sued is because I haven't made mistakes. Every minute I'm running I'm thinking 'what if' before every move. And yes captains do get sued all the time. I've even seen two on People's Court. This one looks like it'll be one of the biggest suits I've seen.