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Shorepower: 480 VS 100amp three phase, or 100 single

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Pascal, Sep 2, 2023.

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  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Background. Lazzara 116 with 2005 vintage Atlas ShorPower system. Whatever you throw at it… single or three phase, 208,240,480, 50 or 60hz, it will output 240v 60hz

    At our home dock we have 480v so we never have an issue. Never tripped a breaker, no matter what we use.

    now when we travel and dock, it s always a PITA. Very few marinas have 480 so we usually have to connect both cords instead of one. Since we are usually on the hook, I don’t have to deal with shore power very often. But when I have to… we keep tripping at the pedestal. The (aging) 100 amp breakers are very hot.

    today we are at ocean reef. No 480v, just a pair of 100 amp three phase. I have both cords plugged in, the Atlas shows both cords are online, yet we keep tripping one of the pedestal breaker.

    Since we rarely have to deal with 208/100, I m not sure whether it’s a dock issue or just the fact that it just can’t deliver what 480 can.

    obviously with a full house, in summer, shutting down one of the chiller isn’t an option… nor is turning off the hot tub or ordering take out food :)

    So…. Is two 208/100 really much less than a single 480/100? Are we just power hogs driving the planet into oblivion with rising sea levels refusing to play the breaker game and shutting down some loads?

    what do boats in our size range typically use for shore power ?
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    You have 2 cords out? Can you rotate them? Same dock pedestal breaker trip?
    Can you reach any other service outlets?

    That dock service outlet, is as good, as the last user left it, full of fried bug stuff and arc pits.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Light up a gen-set.
    Marina has an issue, tell them to fix their service.
    menkes likes this.
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Yeah I am aware of possible burned outlets and aging breakers. I m staying on gen tonight, not getting up every two hours to reset the breakers ….

    jusy trying to figure out whether 2 three phase 100 is as good as a single 480
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Maybe a call to Your Atlas support grope Tuesday.

    Don't think you are using all three (208v) phases in the 100s.
    Maybe just a single phase per cord.
    Then your just getting 208v x 2 cords.

    The 2 cords hopefully are sending the same (1 of the 3) phase to your boat.

    I am assuming your boat is all single phase.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2023
  6. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    208 volts, tbree phase 100 amp is 35.9 kw
    480 volts, single phase, 100 amps is 48kw.
    This does not take into accou t efficiency losses but quick calcs.
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Please explain 35.9Kw, I'm sure I'm missing something.
    Swamp logic figures 62.4Kw for all 3 phases. 20.8Kw per.
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I had the technician from Atlas on board last year to check the system and maintain what had been ignored for years incl replacing a number of contactors and cooling fans.

    he also confirmed that the system is pretty much automatic, so no configuring which phases are used.

    problem is that we only have a single three phase at our home dock, plus the 480, so we can’t test the system using two three phase. That said, here at Ocean Reef, both indicator lights show both cords active and pulling power
  9. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Been to this place many times, chasing a lot of the same deamons.

    What's the incoming voltage when it reaches the Atlas? If the voltage is on the low side, Atlas is going to call for a ton of amps from the dock to make voltage trying to get you back up to 120v per line of output.
  10. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    ...also, the large capacitors in your inverter "could" be weakening, and that might exacerbate the push for more voltage as everything coming aboard is shifted to DC and then back to AC. I recently replaced all of those gigantic capacitors, and that cured a lot. I still struggle when incoming 208 drops down to 202 or 204...the contactor that the Atlas uses to handle that lower voltage range is overheating for me, I think. I've replaced most, but I think there's one lingering that needs attention.
  11. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    ...but your issue is at the dock, which tells me that one of the lines coming aboard is spiking in demand for make up amps as compared to low volts...
  12. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    As far as the marina....all of your gadgets leading to amp draw are being matched by many others on that same transformer. Really suggests very low voltage. Incoming at 208 as a theoretical voltage is bad enough. When you find the reality is that the voltage reaching Atlas is quite a bit less than 208. It's working hard to deliver your panel 120v, and it's perhaps starting with 98-100, maybe worse.
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Sadly, I have so little hands on with 3 phase.
    I understand some of the theory but I know I'm still missing something.
    When I really start to think about a Y transformer, I get dizzy.

    I made adapters from the 5 pin 3 phase to 4 pin single phase shore power cords.
    It was amazing to find what phase-leg was in use for the 50A service down the long docks and use one of the other 208v legs to ensure the nicer Vac to the customers boat.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2023
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Question; your 480v service is a whole different shore power cord always connected to the Atlas system AND the 208/100 are always connected to the Atlas system.

    Or some adapters are used between the service post an the boat?
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    So two 208s should provide more amps than a single 480? Isn’t 480 three phase?

    our gens at 45kw and never trip (never had to run both) so getting 48kw out of the 480 would be enough as well
  16. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    But your gens produce full line voltage. I think you have quite low incoming line voltage. Atlas covers it aboard, but at the cost of drawing many more watt/amps from the dock to create that voltage. That's why it trips at the dock...
  17. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    We have two power cords, both originally with 5 pins 208 connectors. When we brought the boat to our home slip, I replaced one of the connectors with a 4 pin 480v and that’s the cord we use at home

    i also bought a 480v 4 pin female and 6’ of cord and made an adapter to connect the 480 cord to a 208 three phase outlet so we can use both cords when 480v isn’t available.

    with this set up, I have both cords activated (green LED on each at the Atlas selection box), but just not enough power as trips one dockside breaker
  18. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    yeah, that’s what i m wondering. With both 3 phase cords active, I have 214 v coming in the Atlas with 0 load as we re on gen.
  19. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    If you knew tbe connected load of the boat and the actual average running load it would be helpful.

    If the 480 volt shore power is single phase the amps x volts is watts
    If it is tbree phase then amps x volts x 1.73.
    I thought you mentioned your 480 volt shore power was single phase
    480 three phase is about 83 kw.
  20. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    so it’s 214 w no load, and that will quickly drop a bit with some load. Atlas is trying to get the lines to 240 and in doing so is adding load beyond your call for load to the dock.