Selene Yachts - opinions, experience?

Selene

Same question, given the popularity of these vessels I'm surprised there are no replies from owners. I've looked at 3 in the past few weeks and talked at length with commissioning yards - it is difficult to get answers since in some cases the owners were not good boaters and let things pile up. Or is it the case that a few problems are out weighed by silent owners with no material problems??

The difficulty you have in trying to assess any vessel such as Selene or others is that owners are reluctant to tell the truth about their experiences for fear of effecting the value of their own vessels. I believe this is a major reason that boat manufactures get away with what they do with respect to backing their product and providing backup and good customer service. Owners may also be trying to get things done on their boats and not wish to rock the boat with manufacturer or dealer by telling a prospective buyer the truth about their experience.

This was certainly the case with my experience with Symbol Yachts and I have been astounded at how many people I subsequently found out were also unhapy Symbol Owners when it was too late.

I recently met a fellow who was trying to sell his boat, which he subsequently sold. It was interesting that only after he sold the boat did he tell me about all the problems he had with the manufacturer.

Good luck!!

I'm in no way an authority on the manufacture, but we looked at them some years ago (4ish) and got very mixed reviews from on them. They did not make out short list after looking at Fleming, Grand Banks, Marlow, Offshore, and Outer Reef.

Dig deep and pay attention to detail.

Prop Bet

You are certainly right to say "dig deep." But the Selene is an entirely different cruising vessel than the Flemings, GBs etc you mentioned since the Selenes are a "hull speed" vessel only. With the Flemings et al, every trip is planned around locating the fuel docks unless you keep the RPMs way down, which then seems a waste of a good high HP engine setup. This is my quest: finding a quality newer 55' - 60' trawler that has modern systems, the right power package, good layout and high resale potential. The spinner keeps coming back to Nordhavn.

Are we talking about full displacement, or a planing hull trawler? There's a few on the list of the later that are worth a look. Selene isn't one of them.

I have dealt with the early Selenes and from my experience I would run away! It is one of those you get what you paid for boats. The price is attractive but the quallity is not there. The company backs their product but expect a lot of down time with warranty issues.

Not trying to advertise myself but many issues could be resolved if every boat was surveyed and sea-trailed before it left the yard and the final payment is made. Once the boat is shipped out all minor issues become huge expenses for dealer and client even if the builder is willing to back their warranty.

I will give that a big +1+ There are builders who prey on first time buyers lack of knowledge and actively impede brokers and other outside experts from the kind of access required to make informed decisions.

While it might sound good to hold back final payment until all issues are resolved, the fact is that most of the money has already been paid, the boat has been shipped from wherever it was built, and the warranty clock was ticking long before the new owner even feels that first uncomfortable nudge to his sternpost.

It is a terrible fact that boats in this class or size range don't seem to carry the consumer protection coverage that comes with trailer boats, or the standards of construction or corporate ethics that are associated with the long established European and US builders of large yachts. Purchasers of 70 to 100 foot yachts seem to be a rich feeding ground for a few who are giving the business a bad name while gaining rave reviews in the yachting press. Reviews that will never be countered because the owner needs to get out as quickly and painlessly as possible. Caveat emptor.

With respect to rave reviews in boating magazines, when was the last time you read a bad one? Boating magazines survive on the advertising dollars from the very industry they are supposed to be unbiasedly reviewing for their readers. Read boat reviews with the same scepticism as you would read the manufacturers brochure, what is the difference?

I was aware a certain magazine in Australia was going to do a review of a Symbol Motor Yacht, I wrote to them and advised them of my website, Symbol Yachts Beware, and suggested they do some investigative journalism and for the benefit of their readers tell the real story about how the company and the dealer do business, regardless of how good the boat is. They wrote back telling me it was people like me who gave the marine industry a bad name and I should have kept quiet so as not to damage the marine industry!!!!

The glowing review appeared along with a full page Symbol Yachts advertisement in another part of the magazine, join the dots or should I say join the $$$ signs! Boating magazines do not bite the hand that feeds them! The Australian Symbol Dealer has since been arrested and charged with dishonesty offences, you won’t find that reported in a boating magazine.

I can vouch for YachtForums' selectivity in writing reviews. The reviews you don't see may be ones that Carl has made an active decision to not write based on quality of manufacture, builder ethics, dissatisfied customers, etc. You will also see realistic reviews on YF which include negative comments.

I'm speaking up for YF and Carl because I know Carl values integrity over income.

Judy Waldman
YF Writer

Its what you don't know that will cost you

Judy

With due respect to both you and Carl, in my opinion it's your sentence I quote above that is the reason why builders and dealers get away with it, it's what is not said that is the problem.

I know it’s difficult everybody wants to sue everybody, but that's the core of the problem, not saying! You can’t be sued for telling the truth and giving an opinion based on what is true.

One version of Burke’s Triumph of Evil quotes is: “All that is needed for the forces of evil to succeed is for enough good men to remain silent.”

The internet, of which this forum is a part of and Carl is responsible for, can and will do more to expose crooks and shonks than any laws and regulation can achieve, along the way hopefully protecting the next person from getting done over.

This is interesting and it makes perfect sense. It makes one suspicious of anything that's not said in the boating industry. So then, post a question about any boat on a forum like this one. If you get no answer, then stay away of that boat. That's the impression I'm getting. Better safe than sorry, specially with a major expense. And a boat qualifies as a major expense.

Take Five, you absolutely can be sued for telling the truth, especially when you add opinion based on that truth. Sometimes (often) the winner of a lawsuit is simply the one who can afford to spend the most on lawyers.
So even an internet host must be circumspect.

Betsemes, Ask away. You'll get the answers you need. There's a big difference between what the members can tell you based on their experience or knowledge and what a host can post in a review.
This does bring up every boat-buyers greatest wish though. If only there were something like Consumer Reports for boats. But of course that began when there weren't so many people around with tons of money and armies of lawyers to spend it on. Just look at the suit going on between AT&T and Google. What mear mortal would care to get involved in something like that.

I'm a big fan of OA, and I'd take their quality over Selene.

For detailed information on the Selene 48 read Brain Calvert's active blog regarding his trip from Seattle to Indonesia. I have talked with a Selene dealer and toured and examined several vessels new and used. The Selene group appears forhtright in discussing the boat's issues, but one best have some specific knowledge to get effective Q&A going.

That said, in talking with OA and Nordhavn brokers and owners the same requirement for buyer knowledge seems to apply. I have been actively boat searching all 3 of these brands and have found no easy answers except do your homework and don't get mesmerized by the trappings and ignore the protein.

In comparing a 60 OA to a 58 Selene, I found the layout, fit/finish and systems layout on the Selene better thought out. I have found that Nordhavn trumps them both for fit/finish and systems layout in this size range but at an approximate 25 - 30% price premium. In all 3 the get home systems trouble me. I talked with a Nordhavn 55 owner who was likewise troubled and went with wet exhaust twins thus having a quieter boat, no soot on the aft sections and a ready and running get home.

Selene opinions

I am an early stage trawler shopper in the 48-55 range. I have concentrated my search on full displacement hulls. Going faster to me means unacceptable fuel consumption, so despite the fine products offered by Fleming, Grand Banks, OA, etc., I am looking mostly at Krogen, Nordhavn, and Selene. My strategy is to charter and evaluate. I have chartered now four Selenes, and have really liked them. The woodwork, fit/finish, general tightness and security were all good. The finishes weren't bubbled, the boats were quiet, they handled well. Bareboat charters aren't available on Nordhavn, there is one Krogen which I will try. Having chartered four Selenes I maintain my interest in them, to address your question. The Nordhavns and Krogens seem to me to be about 250-300,000 more for a model in the 53-55 range, and I'll need to evaluate these boats to determine if the premium is merited. The many Selene owners I have spoken to on the docks have been positive, as have the Nordhavn and Krogen owners.

Muskett

In the considerable looking I have been doing it seems all owners and brokers tout their vessels, no matter what the brand and problems. Each boat has its own issues, either due to factory glitches, commissioning lapses or owner neglect. Not only is it shopping for a good deal, but it is knowing what gremlins to look for, never an easy task. I have good friends who commission Selenes, Nordhavns and OAs thus am able to get a bit of insight. The owner neglect I have seen on these high end trawlers is surprising, often rendering a very nice newer vessel unworthy. The systems and engines are at times puzzling - picture a new Selene ordered into the PNW with NO heat. Shop carefully.

I'm not a fan on their smaller ones.......like the 56' seems very small for it's size.......


BUT, the 68' + are VERY nice boats with a lot of room and nicely finished. Still a bit overly complicated Tiawanese style.....like the fuel valves/tanks......but the 68' I went on......was very large and nicely done for it's size.