seeking an education

Hi Oklahoma,

You may be approached with brokers giving you other ideas, but I would like to think that for a yacht like you describe, you should at least double the purchase price, or you have to double the annual costs...

However with a bit of luck you will find what you are looking for...

My answer was on a second hand yacht, not a new construction.

For a new construction you better double the figures again to about USD 16 M or more. Annual running costs including fuel use to be 10 percent of the purchase price if you are using the yacht as normal, with charter it can be more but then partly covered by the charter fees...

Would the area of operation change the costs of operation much? Say Great Lakes (US) versus the Med?

Kelly Cook

Yes Kelly, I think breaking ice in Lake Erie will cost you an annual repaint...

For 4 million, the best you could really do would be some sort of second hand westport 106 or equivilent. Location will also change everything, docking/mooring in the Med is far more expensive then in say Victoria B.C. 120ft sounds like it might cost more then you want to spend, it will require 5-6 crew, while a 100-110 would require 4-5 crew plus, plus, plus.
Chartering is definately way to find out. It is money well spent, considering some people think they know what they want, then have buyers remorse. Don't get sucked into management fees, just hire a good captain and stay in touch.
Happy Hunting

Kelly,

Costs vary in every region, from maintenance to dockage, to season or port, and fresh-water to salt. The long term cost between fresh and salt-water are clear.

Picking the right port, at the right time of year, can also play a role in operating costs. There are even ways to save on fuel, such as carefully chosen routes, working with wind & tide.

It's hard to put a figure on the multitude of other factors that can effect operating costs, but you can always count on a few unseen.

Good one Lars!

Killagorilla (welcome aboard),

Sounds like an expedition or trawler is your best bet. As Lars and CaliCaptain suggested... the used market will give you the broadest selection based on the length you're looking for and the amount you'de like to spend, however (and this is personal) I'd rather go a little smaller and buy a new boat.

There are a lot of reasons for going a little smaller, such as cost of operation and required number of crew, but the real reason is more personal. Certainly, there are many other reasons for going new, such as warranty, the latest electronics and the advancements in manufacturing in recent years, but...

... I want to know WHO used the boat, HOW it was used and WHAT it's been exposed to.

This has become clearly evident to me recently. A survey only reveals the current condition of the boat, it doesn't tell you how hard it's been run, what corners have been cut and what kind punishment the owner/captain has put it through.

There are so many angles used by sellers in the pre-owned market. A couple of them that come to mind include...

The seller or broker expanding on the fact that a particular boat has made many large crossings, as if to prove its reliability or capablity. The only thing this proves to me is... it's been WELL USED and exposed to a lot more pounding than a boat used in local waters.

And then there is the live-aboard seller... claiming the regular use of the boat helps keep all the components in good working order. While I DO agree that a boat should be used periodically, the wear & tear put on a live-aboard is even more pronounced.

I've seen used boats that look as good as new, only to watch the owner slam gears from forward to reverse, when a simple turn of the wheel was sufficient. Or in other cases, using sub-standard replacement parts or maintenance. Chances are, you'll never notice this when buying a boat because there are too many details overwhelming you in the purchase, from emotions, to learning all the new systems, to slapping yourself a few days later and asking... "Oh my God, what have I done?"

That being said... there are many fine used boats in the market, but pick your battles. For me, time is a precious commodity and anything that takes away from the same, is costly to my business. I want a boat I can use without worry... and depend on. For me... that would be... a boat I've owned since new and I KNOW how it's been taken care of.

Just my opinion, but I could be wrong.

<waves to all> Hiya!

I read this post as an utter newbie with interest. Although I'm probably in a different market wrt size, cost etc I imagine the advice still rings true.

I'm looking for a much smaller yacht - 45/60 feet (mostly dictated by budget, but also because I don't fancy crossing oceans). Should my first port of call be navigation / yacht handling courses, or a charter with a captain who could show me the ropes? Are there charters where you get lessons too?

lots of companies like sunsail offer holiday / rya courses hand in hand, as a total newbe find a local mariner / yacht club and see whats on offer in the way of charters or courses. If by yacht you mean a sailing yacht then there are loads of RYA approved schools out there, start with compotent crew course and work upwards. If however you are drawn to the dark side, the RYA powerboat courses will very quickley get you to a good level of handling and navigation knowldge.

I do mean power - I'll have a look at the RYA website, assuming they are global - my target spot is the mediterranian.

Although somewhat controversial with many pros and cons, a "partial" ownership may also be an option depending on the amount of use one requires. Think of it as a time-share.

Hi Killagorilla,
For the price range and operating budget you describe an expedition yacht in the 70 to 80 foot range would be possible.

It's much better to go into yachting with a smaller yacht (70 to 90 feet), see how you enjoy the lifestyle, what level of service and travel you desire, how you like having crew around and how much you can afford. If it is something you enjoy it is always possible to move up to a larger yacht with more crew.
DON'T get in over your head on the first yacht, you will end up unhappy with yachting.

Good luck
Dave

Wanting Big... starting small

Good advice above from Dave (Sailronin.) This is the counsel I've received from a number of brokers lately in and around Seattle. There are a number of reasons to "work your way up." Unless one is Tiger Woods (and I'm not) who can spend a quick $22 million on a 156-footer complete with crew for your Very First Boat, starting small(er) certainly makes sense. As one who eventually would prefer to assume most of the captain's duties, it has been pointed out that it requires great experience to drive, dock and maneuver a larger boat and the last thing I would enjoy is "practicing on a pier" in a million-dollar-plus yacht. Admiring a newly-deliveed 52' Tiar Sovran recently, my broker cautioned me against even a boat this size simply because insurance companies will see on my resume that my owner's experience is zero so they simply would choose not to provide coverage. I was advised to start small (32-35 feet) for the first six months or so, gain experience, and then begin to move up. Insurance companies would look more kindly on me and, at the same time, I'd have a MUCH better idea of what features, size and style I would prefer. I'm guessing that even as much as I've been on the water over the years in the boats of friends, without ownership experience, it would be easy to make a two million dollar mistake.... or at least be less-than-satisfied. But again, there may be those who desire a more 'hands off' type of boating and for them, simply tagging along -- on their own yacht -- at the hands of a crew and captain may be and ideal way to go.

Happy cruising.

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