Seaworthy definition

Hi,

I crossed the Pacific on a 50 ft boat with no Radar, it did have a radar reflector. Navigation was done the traditional way.

Is this a coastal passage you are planning and will you be accompanied by enough qualified watch keepers to keep their eyes open all the way?

Whilst a Radar is a noce tool to have at ones disposal I do not think I have seen any rules where a 50 footer needs one.

Probably in the eyes of the plaintiff's attorney if you run over some poor schmuck in the middle of the night.

As far as the COLREGS are concerned, I think the words are "fitted and operational" so both conditions have to be met to make or break the rule, for what it's worth ...

I think a lawyer's definition of seaworthiness is way different from a seafarer's and can only be determined long after the unfortunate event.

radar is not a must have at night, but if you're going to be running in a fog prone area it is...

There's no requirement to have radar on a recreational vessel, but no way would I agree to move a 50' boat 50 miles at night with no radar. The odds of something bad happening are great, and your liability if things go bad is huge. As part of an open ocean voyage where you'll be approaching land after daybreak would be different. The boat may be considered seaworthy, but your judgement will certainly be called into question if anything happens. Leave it to someone without a license to protect.

From the net:

Legally defined, a seaworthy ship is one that is fit for any normal perils of the sea, including the fitness of the vessel itself as well as any equipment on it and the skills and health of its crew.

The latter being the most important in my view.

I did 6 deliveries from Europe to the USA all on brand new boats and without radar. Pretty sure that the builder/ broker/ owner followed the requirements of their insurance policies.

I would however remove a non-functioning radar before the trip in order to avoid legal battling later.

It's a sticky question. No you do not need a radar for the boat to be considered sea-worthy or to do a passage at night.

However, the boat already has a radar installed, and it is considered a navigation aid, and it should be working. Removing it from the vessel would negate this. However this would only come up in the situation of an accident.

As a nonprofessional boater with over 15 years’ experience running my own boats offshore with a precious cargo (my family) I would not travel at night without radar IF I had a choice.
I have run offshore at night without a radar installed, with experienced crew.
Also run into a difficult inlet at night with an "old" Furuno radar. It made the entry possible. Without it, I would have stayed offshore until daylight.
Importantly, I think your post would be used against you SHOULD anything untoward occur as you are obviously aware of the importance of an operational radar and the fact that this vessel has a NON operational one.
Main point is: why risk the trip when you can repair/replace the radar?

Not unusual, especially for sails. Stay out of the shipping lanes at night and try to make landfall in daylight preferably. That's much different than running the coast where you might encounter a bunch of little boats out fishing, maybe more inland running, and smaller inlets. Now, I'd probably do it with my own or helping a friend, but not using my license. No problem with a non-functioning radar, stuff breaks, but if it's working you have to be using it.

I shouldn't have posted in hindsight as all I wanted to say was already said by Marmot in post #3.
There's a difference in personal preference and legal requirement.

why the heck would you want to come in a smaller inlet at night without radar!!!

if had the choice, i'd rather come in a big one, with nicely lit buoys and jetties than a poorly marked, uncharted smaller inlet. Larger boats are better lit and easier to see... less likely to have small poorly lit boat fishing in the channel too.

again, there are some more important factors incl...

- chance of running into fog
- helm visibility: if running from an enclosed pilothouse visibility is a lot worst than from an open flybridge
- how much traffic and what kind of traffic: id' rather be in a channel with larger vessel traffic than outside the channel with poorly lit small boats. ex...

i just can't see why leaving with a non working radar in reasonable conditions (area with no fog) could be an issue and cause you to worry about your license.

at night i'm a lot more concerned about being seen by idiots running on plane with a bunch of bright lights and undimmed electronics than running over someone because i dont' have a working radar.

Short deliveries very often entail entering smaller inlets. Delivering a boat 50 miles east from NYC and you're heading for Moriches inlet, not one to be messed with in the dark if you're unfamiliar, and it packs with small boats (even kayaks).
Pea soup fog is very possible anywhere on the west coast or around here.
It's only in recent years that so many boats are equipped with fancy radars & chart plotters, and on boats under 35' you're very likely to find no radar. On boats with radar you're as likely as not to find a guy at the held with the best equipment money can buy, and not a clue how to use it.
If an incident happens while running at night without radar, and you don't have a real good reason it couldn't have waited for daylight, it could certainly have you explaining to the CG and will certainly have you explaining to lawyers because license holders are supposed to know better than to take unnecessary risks.

everything is a risk!!! the minute you step on a boat you are taking a risk!

Obvously coming in a small unfamiliar inlet at night can be considered an unnecessary risk, with or without radar...

this is not what this thread is about, it's about whether or not a vessel without radar is considered "Seaworthy" for a 50NM night run. The short answer is yes as long as you will not encounter conditions requiring the use of radar