Sea trial before making an offer?

Usually no. But your offer/contract should be subject to sea trial BEFORE survey. Most sellers will agree to this has you have made an offer and given a deposit to the broker. If for some reason you don't like the way the boat performs, handles etc you can back out before surveys

Second what Pascal said. Particularly in boats the size you reference, it would be too easy for people to just request pleasure cruises. Taking a boat out involves time and expense, sometimes significant. It's not like tossing someone the keys to a car. The offer/deposit confirms a serious buyer and seller.

Any legal or insurance implications in chartering a personal vessel that hasn't been chartered? Covering expenses sounds simple. As a seller, I'd make it clear in the ad: no rides without financing and offer confirmed, and buyer covers costs, refund of costs if purchased.

Even if you were a long-time powerboater, I don't think most people would have an idea about how a particular hull will ride. Even one ride in one condition won't tell a lot. I've read a wealth of info here on this forum about different boats and the way they ride, sound, maneuver, handle seas, how their galley setups work with dining setups, how they are with and without crews aboard, how they work out when chartering. The posters on this website seem to know more than you can learn from a sea trial about the characteristics of various boats. There may also be reviews online about each boat.

If you have an agreed upon offer and have given your buying broker a check, then there is no need to pay for the exp. it's prudent to see if you like the ride before dumping thousand on a survey. If they seller refuses, then that might be an indication that they aren't confident the boat can survive two trips away from the dock. They have to buy Te the bullet if they want to sell the boat.

Welcome to YF.

Let me first state protocol: in general, the sea trial is performed as part of the survey which includes an executed purchase agreement and a 10% deposit in broker's escrow account. You are asking for a "boat ride." Some owners may be willing to do so, particularly if you pay the expense. However, it should not necessarily be a bad reflection on the seller if he holds to standard protocol. There is no harm in asking the broker to see if the owner will agree to a pre-survey sea trial. I recommend your asking the question as long as you don't "hold it against" the owner if he declines.

I support what 30 West said in his post. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum who can probably give an opinion on the particular yacht of interest to you. For example, there are surveyors onboard YF and experienced brokers (I have sold approximately 150 trawlers). If you don't want to publicly announce your yachts of interest, feel free to use the PM (private messaging system).

Judy

I don't agree. I've done a couple sea trials where the boats were not as advertised and run terribly. At that point you are out $5k for engine and hull surveys for boat a blind man could figure out is screwed up.

Oh yeah, just sue the listing broker!!

Like everything you have to play it by ear This is where a buyers broker helps as he will know who s a serious buyer and who's a tire kicker and will get that point across to the sellers broker.

Last year I was helping an owner sell her 70 footer, a boat i had run for a few years before moving on. Potential buyers from California came to look at the boat with a contract and offer that wasn't fully executed and with their broker holding a fresh undeposited check. They asked if we could do a quick sea trial before they flew home the next morning. Owner gave her ok based on brokers calling buyer serious and my gut feeling having shown them the boat and met them. Took them for a ride and that alone helped smooth out the bumps which came later in process. Boat sold. Cost to seller $150 of diesel... even if I had charged her for my half day it was still nothing.

The previous owner of my boat wouldn't bring the boat in from his summer home on an island without an offer and deposit. The broker wasn't expecting to make a sale, all he had was a few pictures and no boat to show.

I scoured the internet for opinions and reviews, read posts from owners and previous owners, read anything anyone had to say about this boat, good or bad. I was well informed when talking to my surveyors, knew what to have them look for and what to ask about.

It took me a lot of time online, but it was well worth it for the purchase and now owning it. So far, few bad surprises.

A Buyer's Broker doesn't cost the Buyer anything - it means the Selling broker, paid by the Seller, splits his commission with the Buyer's broker instead of getting the full commission him/her self.

Judy

That was my situation. I came in without a buyer broker, but well informed. My wife took over negotiations as I had a month of fairly intense training. She is an embarrassingly gifted negotiator, got the seller to drop his price and throw in stuff not originally in the deal, and the broker to lower his commission and pay for a lot of our costs.

I agree with this, everyone benefits. I'm going to survey everything anyway, as soon as two brokers are involved nobody will give up any $$. The main problem is getting all info from the owner and some brokers will dribble info as little info as possible. Now tell the listing broker what I expect and will bail out if not getting info requested. Actually, bailing out on a contract tomorrow because of being told certain things about maintenance that was not on invoices for claimed work.

I am a fan of Outer Reef. That's not negative to the other two, just positive toward them. We run regularly at cruise speeds of 20 knots and we're told all the time that no one else does that. So, you need to think of whether you'll ever use that extra speed of the OA or Offshore. If you're going to be running at 10-12 knots, then it's not going to matter what top speed is. If you really would like to run at 18 knots then that eliminates the Outer Reef.

Talking speed, I believe the OA more like an 18 knot cruise and 24 knots WOT. I don't believe 25+ and the listing for it doesn't show that. It's got 1600 hp MTU's.

The Offshore has 1400 hp MAN's and I don't believe those speeds for it either. I would think 24-25 WOT max and 18-20 cruise max.

The Outer Reef has 1134 hp CAT's, C-18 Acert. The majority of this forum will be CAT fans. I'm not necessarily, more because of the noise than any other reason. Be sure to check that aspect out.

You say "budgeting for a mate and a skipper for the first year at least." I'd omit that "first year" part in my budgeting, even if I found out later I didn't need as much. If you're cruising, there is a lot of routine work to be done. Not so much if you're sitting at a dock. But every day you run it, it gets salt spray and needs a washdown, and the engine checks are needed and fluids checked and filters. Some things your crew can do that you're going to have to either have a crew for or pay someone else to do or you'll become a boat hand rather than a retired owner enjoying himself. None of those boats are boats to be handled single handed. Also, just taking care of the inside is a large job. It's like taking care of a 4 bedroom, 3 bath home. All three are large boats by the definitions of most. I think you're more likely to find yourself yearning for more crew than less. One other thing that impacts crew is running at night, if you want to do longer crossings. Must have at least two of you capable of taking the helm and three makes it a whole lot easier.

I'd suggest some time talking to experienced boaters with that size of boat and captains and talking about how you picture things working.

One more thing I'll toss out as related to sea worthiness and that I believe you'll find in the Outer Reef. You don't want to be running either of these three inside on the ICW day to day, but want to get out and run nicely outside. The more boat you have the more days you can do so. Sea conditions still sometimes dictate no, but not nearly as often in a boat like the Outer Reef as in a smaller boat.

I think all three boats could be very good for you.