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RPM's drop when put in gear

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Stardust, Dec 12, 2008.

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  1. Stardust

    Stardust New Member

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    I have a mercrusier 454 inboard. When I put my port engine in gear the RPMs drop down to almost a stall (fwd or rev) and then recover slowly to maybe 2 or 300 RMPs low. I found this out at the dock and am a little worried about getting underway this weekend.

    Any ideas? Bad tranny bearing, fowled prop ?????
  2. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Hi and welcome to YF.
    How old is your boat/engine and when was she tuned up last?

    Even a sick motor will idle OK, but when put under a load (i.e., when you put it in gear), maintenance issues manifest themselves.

    Pull a sparkplug...black/dirty? Could be a clogged air filter, weak electrical (distributor/rotor/coils/points/timing), or old fuel/carburetor adjustment/clogged injectors.

    And, yes, it might be twenty feet of dockline wrapped around the prop.

    Good luck.
  3. Stardust

    Stardust New Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Good food for thought. I didn't think about the engine.I just bought the boat this year, 1986 Carver 42MY. The previous owner had to replace the stbd engine before he could sell. I put about 30 hours on the boat this summer with no problems. Engine meter is at ~800 hrs. I think she may have been a dock queen at times over the years. I got the impression the previous owner did fair maintenance by receipts and spare parts on board, but who knows. (No detailed log as I keep now).

    I'm running from Havre De Grace to Northeast to get hauled this weekend. Would you think running easy on both engines could create a bigger problem?
    I would think if I keep an eye on tranny temperature, I should be OK.
  4. jdpeterson

    jdpeterson New Member

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    My next door neighbor just went through a similar issue and while investigating the problem discovered that the linkage, when shifting into either forward or reverse, momentarilly accuates an ignition kill switch, designed to reduce the loading on the transmission when moving from Neutral into gear.

    The cure in his case was to replace the sticky shift cable to the outdrive and have everything adjusted by a qualified mechanic. Hope this helps.
  5. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    Good point, some Merc's have a micro-switch on the shift to retard the ignition (try Sierra Parts, cheaper) its a small thing often overlooked.

    Oh yer, good old fishing line around the shaft as well

    Fish
  6. ERTW

    ERTW Member

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    very good and point about the shifting! Also had a similar problem with the 7.4L 454 whereby RPM would drop/hesitate on plane or docking for no mechanical reason from the engine...turned out to be a faulty battery terminal.
  7. NoRudder

    NoRudder New Member

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    Stardust's gas engine

    Based on a couple of things I guess we are looking at a carburetor engine here. Being an inboard you could turn the propshafts from inside by hand to see if there is excessive drag on the propshaft. If that is OK, while underway I would place both engines at about 12-1400 RPM and advance only one at a time to full throttle. If the engines are sound and running gear proper, they would reach close to the same RPM. If your problem engine is much lower, we may be looking at things as simple as fuel starvation, or problems with burned valves/compression loss or anywhere in between.
    Loren mentioned looking at the spark plugs. This is very accurate indeed. They should be rather dry and a golden brown like color on the porcelain. Wet, dark, deposits (and salt taste on the tongue for raw water cooled boaters in saltwater) are not good signs. That reminds me, leaking water from inside exhaust manifolds often sounds like the carb is flooding at low RPM but clears when you race up the engine RPM.
    Sorry for the long post. Hard to diagnose an engine over the internet.

    Rick
  8. Stardust

    Stardust New Member

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    Found no compression in cylinder #5. Have to wait until I'm back in my slip this spring as I have to remove the exhaust manifols in order to remove the bottom valve cover bolts. I'm hoping for a broken push rod, but my guess is burnt exhaust valve.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Don't forget that leaking manifolds and risers kill more gasoline inboards then any other cause. Check the exhaust ports in the cylinder heads to see if water has been leaking into them from the manifolds and risers. The manifolds and risers are usually changed every 3-5 years in saltwater. I've rarely found a burnt exhaust valve in gas inboards. Usually it's a hole in the piston/bent piston rod from water intrusion from the exhaust manifolds, then next would be a melted piston if the gasoline is bad and/or the ignition timing was set overzealously.
  10. Stardust

    Stardust New Member

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    I finally tore down the engine. Found 20% of #5 exhaust valve missing and water in the cylinders. Block and pistons look OK but I will measure piston to T.O.Block dimensions to rule out bent rod.
    Question: The valve seat is pretty tore up. If the machinist says he can't save the head can I replace the head with a 454 truck head? Are auto and Marine valves the same material (Inconel)?
  11. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    There is a member here called Kiwipushrod who has previously posted some pretty sound info about Gas V8's and the like.

    He hasn't posted here for a while but you could always try sending him a PM and see what he thinks.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    On those large block gas Chevy's, there are some differences from head to head (Marine, car, truck). Easy to figure out. Match the shape of the inlet and exhaust ports. Square or round in, square, round or D shaped out. The valve size usually goes with in/out shapes. Any good machine shop should be able to fix your head or point you to a replacement. Stay stock (marine) on rockers and springs.

    You mentioned dock queen. Probably the culprit. Salt air and rust builds up on the valve seat and burns away the valve and seat when running. Once that starts, it's over. Leaking riser gaskets and bad exhaust components can leak some water back to the cylinder also. You should be able to see the red trails on the inside of the manifold when it's apart if you have leaks.
  13. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    Having been down this road before can i "strongly assume" your going to pull the other head while your at it?