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Ratings of power cat manufacturers

Discussion in 'General Catamaran Discussion' started by hat4349, Apr 29, 2022.

  1. hat4349

    hat4349 Senior Member

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    I'd like to know if there is a published list of power cat manufacturers and their rankings. I have been looking for one, but no luck. I find plenty of reviews but you can tell the reviewer is aware if the say the wrong thing the company will not let them reviews their yachts again. I watch videos of tests done by reviewers, I hear and see plenty about the pros of the build but never anything that tells be about the quality of the hull or the durability based on the history of the builder.

    I watch one video by a well know reviewer, so I joined the owner's forum for that boat. I found out it had a history of electrical problems and still had them with the new model. Nothing was said about that. I'd love to read and watch truthful reviews.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Tank another breath and re ask your question so we can understand what it is you are asking? Size, quality, speed, how many bimbos you can stash????
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    There are no independent rankings of boats. You can only read between the lines of reviews to pick up any negatives. No publisher including YF reviews and then publishes negative reviews. Some choose to publish positive and some don't publish it.
  4. hat4349

    hat4349 Senior Member

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    I find that to be the truth and am ashamed that we have produced such people that have no convictions about not reporting or hiding their heads in the sand so they don't have to report the truth. It is a bad reflection of what we have become.

    I am not asking about the size or speed of a yacht and I don't care how many "bimbos" you want to stash away. I do care about truth of the quality of a yacht.
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Truth in quality of anything is subjective. In anything that floats, even more.
    Even Bayliners were put together well. But they can not compare to a Formula.

    What are you looking for in something that floats?
    Then you go find it, inspect it, survey it and determine for your self, is there enough quality in it (per buck) for you.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    There is one old time surveyor who claimed to be objective and his reviews, in my opinion, are mostly garbage. So what is gained? You're not going to have negative reviews as a boating site and ever again get the opportunity to review boats of any brand. You want someone else to do all your work for you? Fine. Just give me the money for the boat plus 20% and I'll go buy you the boat. There are plenty of places to ask about specific boats and brands and get opinions.

    The reality is that nearly all builders build decent quality, at least to the standards of some buyers. So, it's levels of quality and attributes of boats.
  7. hat4349

    hat4349 Senior Member

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    I don't expect anyone to find me a boat nor to do my research for me. I am not knocking any boat manufacturers because they manufacture to a certain price, style, or whatever they think the part of the market they are interested in. I have no problem with that, all I am saying if a reviewer knows of a common problem with a certain line of boats they should include that. I feel like all boat reviewers act as a sales agent for the manufacturer and do not really do a truthful and complete review. I did not mention surveyors nor comment about their work. I would never buy a boat without a survey, my opinion and no offense meant to anyone, I just want to know the pros and cons when I read of watch a review. If all you are doing is giving the good then you are not doing a review you are selling the boat.
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Well, the bad???
    Your rite, you are not going to get the bad in a magazine.
    But a boat rating list, Not on this planet.

    There was one magazine that was parallel to Consumer Reports on boats and hardware.
    It did not last but a few years.
    No related advertisers.
    Copy??

    Some help could possibly come from feedback on forums like this one.
    What boat do you have in mind? I'm sure somebody, somewhere has been exposed to it.
  9. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    The reason we stopped doing reviews is because peer-to-peer forum discussions carry more validity. The information exchanged here is often from members with the kind of hands-on experience a writer simply can't convey on a 1 hour sea trial.
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Let's simplify this. There are two ways to do this. One is advertising. The other is charge for membership.

    Only one review operation I know, Consumers Reports, charges and they struggle greatly to have members and are very limited in what they can afford to review on their budget.

    So now, web sites or publications with advertisements. Who is going to pay to advertise on a site with negative reviews. Look at YF. Every ad on the site is either a builder or boating related as it should preferably be. If they start posting negative reviews, what do you think would happen. Carl has chosen quality builders but he's occasionally been kind to a builder he shouldn't have and had to remove them. He allows criticism from forum members. Fortunately his advertisers are such quality that it's seldom of them. But would Heesen make a boat available to a site to review if they're read many negative reviews on that site? No.

    You can read between the lines of reviews on the sites that do a lot. They do give indications of strengths and weaknesses. However, they are not going to say "Brand A has a history of gelcoat issues." Suddenly, they've have no more Brand A boats to review and they and the reader will suffer.

    I will say this too. Allowing the general public to review is equally dangerous. You get trolls. You get friends of the company. You get people with a personal axe to grind.

    One more comment. Judy has done a lot of very excellent reviews here. I've read and enjoyed them. Yet, Judy and my wife and I have very different tastes in boats. Here's a review from Carl of Burger's Top Times. Review: Burger's "Top Times" - Burger Yacht | YachtForums: We Know Big Boats! Great review. Great boat. We chartered for a week. Not for us. We loved the boat but just too slow for us. Our review would have been incredible boat but too slow. However, 98% of buyers wouldn't have cared about the speed. With one honest review from us, we could have misled people.

    You talk catamarans. Well, we've considered them at times and talked to many about them. Opinions are all over the place. Who do you listen to? You just gather all the information you can, then rent or charter one, then visit the builder's factory, then still you're taking a chance. Not a single one I've heard recommended by all.
    gr8trn likes this.
  11. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    To OB's point, I wrote the Top Times review in the summer of 2004. I had just launched YF a few months before this and during this period I was juggling a ton of codework while trying to build-out news and review archives. I had no business writing a review. My cerebral matter was melting.

    My reviews became more in-depth as I stabilized our digital landscape giving me the time to properly cover a yacht such as Sycara IV in which I flew up to Manitowac to document the boat... https://www.yachtforums.com/review/burger-151-fantail-cruiser-sycara-iv.12144/

    The real value in our reviews wasn't for the builder, the advertiser or even the consumer... those reviews brought experts to YF, people with real, hands-on knowledge that has turned YF into a trusted resource.
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Carl, when viewing reviews using the mobile version no date appear so you can’t tell how old the review is…
  13. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Lots of postbits have been removed for mobile devices because of limited screen sizes.

    On a somewhat related catamaran note, I was just driving over the Jupiter Inlet bridge and spotted the Axcell 65' Catamaran docked at 1000 North so I stopped to see if Bruce Barsumian, the brains behind the build was there...

    https://www.yachtforums.com/review/axcell-65-hybrid-air-power-catamaran.17202/

    Instead, I met the new owner 'Walter' who said he had read the YF review on this boat several times before purchasing.
    gr8trn likes this.
  14. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Returning to thread topic regarding real reviews vs. happy advertiser reviews, when I wrote the piece on the Axcell 65 I didn't hold anything back. Because of this, Bruce had trouble selling the boat and it fell into disrepair.

  15. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    I am unaware of this list. Perhaps you may be able to get one started and post your reviews in a thread here?
    I am not interested in a power cat but they are growing in popularity, so not interesting to me but may be valuable to this forum.

    I do get why you are looking for a list, I do the same when I am interested in a new boat.

    There is a series of sailing catamaran reviews on youtube by sailing ruby rose that is interesting. It is not the end all to be all but is one couples opinion combined with viewer ratings that does point out some of the warts that one may encounter with various manufacturers. It may be worth some of your time as some of the sailing cat and power cat companies share the same facotries, designers and processes.
  16. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Thanks, OB. As a public fyi, Carl and I discussed every new build as a possibility for review. If we discovered too many negatives, we would cancel the review. If we knew the builder had previous duds, we didn't pursue reviews on the new model. If we knew of bad business practices (owners getting screwed), we wouldn't write the reviews. So the reviews we have written have passed the builder smell test. And yes, they include the negatives. So on the reviews we did write, there aren't a lot of negative comments to be made or else we wouldn't write the review. Additionally, even if after a glowing review, the builder didn't play nice, the reviews would be removed. Hard to find reviews on YF on any builder who has been in a client lawsuit (boat sinks on launching, unresolved vibrations, pyramid payments, etc.)

    So a big clue on reviews are the ones that YF didn't write.

    Judy
    bayoubud likes this.