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Questions about Vikings in the 60' range

Discussion in 'Viking Yacht' started by Tank Sears, Apr 3, 2015.

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  1. Tank Sears, Apr 3, 2015
    #1
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    First time poster, long time lurker.

    Very good friend is looking hard at Vikings in the 60' range. Early 2000's most likely convertable. He's asked me to be his right hand man in the search and check boats with him.

    So, what's the skinny on bewares? What are things to look for that are "must haves"?

    Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated.

    Boat won't be used for "serious" sport fishing. Just party cruises out to the Channel Islands (Southern California) or over to Catalina. And maybe do some fishing out behind the islands. Mostly want it to load up friends and hit the water in a timely fashion and not be limited on use.

    Also, regarding power, I realize cats, Detroit diesel, cummins are desirable. How are MANS? Specifically how will 1200hp mans be? And regarding hours, what are we talking would make you nervous when hours start to creep up into the thousands? We're performance boat guys, I'm used to having to rebuild power at or before the 400hr mark.

    One particular boat we're looking at has 1800 hours in rebuilt mans? Red flag? Or not too much to worry about?


    Thanks for any and all help.

    Tank
  2. chesapeake46, Apr 3, 2015
    #2
    chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    Search yacht forums about Mans. There is alot of valuable info there.
  3. Tank Sears, Apr 3, 2015
    #3
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    Readers digest version?
  4. chesapeake46, Apr 3, 2015
    #4
    chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    You lost me there but i know i've read some very informative threads comparing cats & Mans etc here. I believe there is a wealth of info there that will help you make an informed decision.
  5. Tank Sears, Apr 3, 2015
    #5
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    I was just trying to save the hours of combing through varies threads. And if you had specific info I'm all ears, or eyes as it is.

    I do see parts for them can be scarce. But how's the quality?
  6. Kafue, Apr 3, 2015
    #6
    Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    I get you, have to laugh though. Your friend is about to spend a relatively large amount of money. That needs more than a quick flick through a condensed brochure. No offense intended because I suffer the same symptom of "give me the info quick and cut the prose!"
    There is no short cut to this. If you want to do some effective research, take the time. You have more FREE expert and hands on experience here then anywhere. Then make your decision, or better, ask your friend to join and do the same.
  7. olderboater, Apr 3, 2015
    #7
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    You tell us nothing about you. What's your experience and knowledge? Why does he want your help? We know you don't want to spend time searching but little else and it's quite relevant to our being able to answer you as our answers need to be tailored to your knowledge. You say you're performance boat guys but I don't know how much that implies or what type as rebuilding at 400 hours or sooner is certainly quick. The one worry that gives me too is it sounds like you're use to running boats hard, so does that mean likely to run this boat hard? You run it constantly wide open like it sounds like you've been doing with previous boats and you're talking very short engine lives as well.

    What age boats and price ranges are you looking at? How hands on and experienced is your friend? Is he going to operate of have a Captain? If fishing isn't the emphasis, then why a Viking?
  8. Tank Sears, Apr 3, 2015
    #8
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    I hear ya. No offense taken.

    Just wanted some first hand info from (as you said) the free expert advise on here and see if there's anything we're missing.

    When it comes to these Mans motors, they're pretty uncommon in the west coast. Like I said, I'd prefer cats or detroits but a certain Viking is a good price and has these in them.

    Then again there's a 2000 60 hatteras with cats in it that looks to be a winner so, I guess we'll see.


    And regarding him joining, he's just not the type and extremely busy with his company. Guess that's why he's asking me to help him


    We're not exactly novice boaters and far from completely ignorant to what he's getting into. Again, just looking for insight than I (we) already have.
  9. RER, Apr 3, 2015
    #9
    RER

    RER Senior Member

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    I think you're going to have to get into the 2000 or older model 58's to be down at 1200hp. And no, there aren't many w/MAN power out on the west coast. More than before though.
  10. Tank Sears, Apr 4, 2015
    #10
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    Ok, thought my questions were pretty straight forth but I have no problem answering the questions you've asked.

    About me, grown up around boats including lake boats, run-abouts, yachts up to 90' and like I said mostly go-fast offshore style boats. Started working at the local Wellcraft Dealer when I was 11 and have boated ever since. Owned several smaller boats including a 38' Cigarette Top Gun, smaller Baja outlaw, Boston Whalers, etc. I wrote for Powerboat Magazine for a few years and had the opportunity to run on and/or drive nearly every type of high speed offshore Vee Bottom or Catamaran built with-in the past 8 years . Highlights of that include spending some very quality time running a Nor-Tech 80' Yacht at speed off of Sarasota Fl. Running 170mph in a 31 DCB cat in Lake Havasu, Az. Running 150 mph in a 48' MTI super cat in Ft. Myers, Fl. running the coast down from Miami to Key West numerous times in various vessels and running out of my local harbor (Channel Islands Ca.) in everything from a 12' dingy when I was 11 to a 90' troller that I spent much a relaxed weekend on. That's the skinny on my boating background.

    Why does he want my help? Well, we're good friends and I assume he respects my input and advise, at least when it comes to boats ;)

    Regarding how I boat in a performance boat, I'll deduce by your wording that a rebuild at 400 hours being quick, that you are not familiar with the ins and outs of performance boating. Blowers, super chargers, turbos large cubic inch displacement etc. to get those large HP numbers up to 1500 hp out of a V-8, causes some large wear and tear issues. I don't know of many people that run their boats wide open. Just as you don't want to stress your large diesel motor while pinning it to the dash, you don't want to do that to a high horse power motor. However, it's just the nature of the beast. 4-700 hrs in a V-8 performance platform is actually considered lucky if you're running anything over 650hp.

    Age wise, looking at 2000 or newer, unless we come across something that's been nicely referbished and has been gone through and upgraded; sometimes those are the best deals! price range is 250-500k Just depends on what we're talking. Like I said above, there’s a 60' Hatteras for 600 he's considering as well. But its a fresh water boat that only has 400 hours on Cats and the interior looks like it's off a Feadship!

    The owner will be captaining it himself. He will have a mechanic for service and repair.

    And why a Viking (or Hatteras) sportfishing vessel? Well, he likes them. I asked if he wanted to look into Sunseeker, Searay, Azmut, etc. but he wants to stick with a sportfish. He likes the cruising speed, likes the versatility, likes the room, likes the way they handle big water (water in the pacific in our area runs big regularly) and he will fish off of it.

    If you happened to ask me what are red flags or must haves for a 38' Cigarette Top Gun from the years of 1989 to present I could give you a laundry list of suggestions and pro's and cons. Ask me about certain Mercury Marine motors and I could answer questions about weak points and strong points. What motors were good and which ones didn't do so well. If you were to ask me about stern drives and the pros and cons of a Mercury racing super speed master #3 #3a #5 or #6 compared to a bravo, XR, TRS, Konrad, Teague, etc. I could go on for days of the pros and cons.

    Ask me about lay-up of a fiberglass boat compared to a composite boat or boats that infused carbon fiber and we'll talk for hours. Ask me about a center pod compared to a standard classic catamaran design and the pros or cons and again, we'll have a nice long discussion.

    So, again, I'm far from ignorant to sport yachts but would like to know from someone that has one or that has a passion for them, what are the important must-haves to make life easier? What are things to look out for? Did they have any issues in their lay-up, design or quality control from year to year? And, what is everyone's opinion on power? Motors or HP to stay away from because the vessel will run sluggish or the attitude will not be right?

    Basically, anything relevant will help. Being very familiar with boating forums and the way they work (I belong to several), I really don't want to search through 90 pages of threads and read through the pages of people smoking and joking in between the information I'm looking for. If I wanted to spend hours combing through threads, I would not have joined and just asked the question out-right.

    So, I've answered your questions in detail. What do you have for me?

    Thank you again,

    Tank
  11. Tank Sears, Apr 4, 2015
    #11
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    Not specifically looking at 1200hp. It's just one option has 1200 Mans
  12. Kafue, Apr 4, 2015
    #12
    Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Quite a resume!
    Welcome to YF.
    How is your back, neck and do you still have any fillings left in your teeth!

    Personally, I would go with Cats. Had MAN D2876LE401, 700 Hp. All electronic and had some problems, mainly due to "programming" issues. Ran superb other than these few occasions, but never felt comfortable knowing the lack of available technicians for support. Note, that does not mean the support was bad, just that my choice of where to find this experitise was extremely limited. Put it this way, I sold the boat before the engine warranty was due to expire. I travel a lot to places where a mechanic is still the guy with a good set of tools and oil on his hands. Not a fully fledged computer expert with clean finger nails. Then again, I suppose most, if not all major manufacturers have followed technology. In which case go with the one that has the most coverage in your area. Plus look at parts cost and service costs.
    Like the fact that the support for Cats are so much easier to find in most areas.
    Cheers and good luck.
  13. Tank Sears, Apr 4, 2015
    #13
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    Thank you for the welcome and solid advise. I'm coming to the conclusion you are correct, there's a reason why cats are so popular.

    And got all my fillings, backs ok and neck is still mobile. :D

    They're not as rough as you would think. Land very nice. I routinely ran 70+ in 6 foot seas. Just gotta quarter and know what you're doing. ;)
  14. olderboater, Apr 4, 2015
    #14
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    That gives me something to go on. Either Hatteras or Viking should be an excellent boat in that range of years and price. As to the engine hours since the rebuild, the 1900 is rather high and probably represents quite a few years based on the average use, but I'd be more concerned with what the engine survey says. This is one thing I will add, that regardless of your experience, I'd want both an overall survey and an engine survey and make any deal contingent on both.

    There are some people here who have run both SF's extensively and can give you the individual characteristics of both. I brought up how it's run, simply as that can make a big difference and as you look even at the 1900 hours or less will be important. There are sportfishermen who beat their boats to death, then other people who have SF's and run them gently.

    You will find an overwhelming preference on this site for CAT's vs. MAN's. Now, we have two boats with MAN's and have had no issues, but they're only 2 1/2 years old and been excellently maintained. As I went back 10 and 15 years then I'd also join the group with a great preference for CAT's over MAN's. I suspect 1900 hours on rebuilt MAN's is greatly impacting the market for that specific boat.

    With Hatteras and Viking you're dealing with two excellent builders and getting assistance, replacement parts, and just general help shouldn't be an issue with either.

    As to being familiar with performance boating, obviously not as much as you, but it helped to know what you considered performance boating. I did have some friends into it on the lake in various boats from Allisons to Rayson Craft to Checkmate to Hustler. I knew some years ago who had their engines built by Holman Moody in Charlotte and got the boat serviced almost every time they used it for a weekend.

    To me, I'd choose which to favor by the specific boat, which model, it's condition than Viking vs. Hatteras. And I'd prefer the CAT in that vintage, even though overall I'm not nearly as much one who favors CAT's as most here. But I favor them greatly in what you're looking at. As to the rebuild too, I'd be very interested in who rebuilt it and in what they really mean by "rebuild," exactly what was done. Maintenance records are nice to see if possible.

    And I'd still advise you to use the search feature here as you'll find many discussions of engine preferences and of Hatteras and Viking. As to your comment "I really don't want to search through 90 pages of threads and read through the pages of people smoking and joking in between the information I'm looking for," I think you may be judging based on other forums you're on but that is not the nature of this forum. There are also forum sections devoted to both brands. If you choose not to use the search function then you won't be availing yourself of all the available information on this site and you'll limit yourself to just those reading your post today, rather than also the knowledge of those who have posted at other times.
  15. Tank Sears, Apr 4, 2015
    #15
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    Thank you old boater! You're obviously well versed in this arena. Appreciate the frank opinions.

    I will absolutely search around a bit on the site.

    And yes, we'll absolutely be getting surveys for boat and power including oil samples on anything bought.

    You also bring up an excellent point regarding info on who did the rebuilds and requesting a build sheet. Great advise!


    Thank you again.

    Tank
  16. YachtForums, Apr 4, 2015
    #16
    YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    There's no BS on YF. This isn't OSO.
  17. Tank Sears, Apr 4, 2015
    #17
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    No offense meant and I didn't mean to insinuate BS. I meant for example, if I was searching for a thread exactly like this, it would've taken me 11 or 12 replies to read before I got to the answer. It's just the nature of the beast.
  18. RER, Apr 4, 2015
    #18
    RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Your budget and your boat don't jibe.
  19. olderboater, Apr 4, 2015
    #19
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Your high end is at best at the lowest end of the range. 2000 60' Viking or Hatteras tend to run from $550,000 to $1.1 million. I'd suggest you search online to get a better feel for the market. In the range you're looking you're going to likely be pushed to older than 2000.
  20. Tank Sears, Apr 4, 2015
    #20
    Tank Sears

    Tank Sears New Member

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    Seems I've found a few within the budget and that was just some quick searching not really sitting down. I do agree 500+ is a little more realistic.

    Was there much of a change from the late 90's to early 2000's? Interior look a little more dated maybe?

    Thanks again

    http://m.**************/boats/2000-viking-convertible-united-states-yw2785068

    http://www.galatiyachts.com/used-ha...R/60-FT/HOLLAND/MI/US/details-4791938#details

    http://www.galatiyachts.com/used-vi...LE/58-FT/SAN-DIEGO/CA/US/details-4215766#info

    http://www.galatiyachts.com/used-vi...LE/58-FT/SAN-DIEGO/CA/US/details-4215766#info
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
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