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Questions about international liveaboards:

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Kevin R, Sep 26, 2021.

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  1. Kevin R, Sep 26, 2021
    #1
    Kevin R

    Kevin R New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2021
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Singapore
    Hello all, new member here. I’ve been reading for a while but this is my first post. Apologies in advance for the length – I have a few questions.

    My wife and I are looking at retiring on a liveaboard boat 5-8 years from now, but we have a somewhat complicated situation. I’m wondering if anyone can give any insights which would help to steer my thinking.

    Here is our situation. I am Canadian, my wife is Singaporean. We have been living and working in Singapore for the last 25 years and our home and all our investments/money are based here, and we pay tax here. We would like to retire and cruise the waters of Canada/US/Bahamas/Caribbean, but I don’t want to cash out of Singapore and move back to Canada for tax reasons (capital gains and dividend), especially if we will be cruising elsewhere for much of the time. We would like to remain domiciled in Singapore, keep our apartment here and pay taxes here, and get worldwide medical insurance here for our travels overseas.

    My questions basically come down to a boat’s registration, insurance, and the powerboat driving license. I will most likely buy a boat from the US, possibly Canada. I probably won’t be able to register it in Singapore because they only allow registration of pleasure craft 17 years old or less, and I am looking at older boats. Even for newer boats they require a 3-yearly survey at a Singapore boatyard, and it would be a headache to get a boat back into Singapore waters every 3 years. Which leaves registering it in the US, Canada or a third country.

    My first question is, would living on a boat registered in the US or Canada (although not necessarily physically present there) leave me exposed to being considered a resident of that country, and possible tax liability? For this reason I’m considering registering in a place like the Cayman Islands. (Does anyone here have any experience regarding having their residency status in a certain country determined by registering a boat there?)

    My second question is, is it possible to register a boat in one country (eg Cayman Islands) but insure it in a different country (eg Canada/US/Singapore)? Or does the insurance need to be in the same country as registration?

    My third question is, would a Powered Pleasure Craft Drivers License from Singapore be recognised or of any value while cruising in US/Canada/Caribbean waters? I imagine the vast majority of cruisers buy/register/insure their boats in their home country, and have the license from the same country too. I’ve been searching around the internet for info on this, but all I can find is info on how to register a boat in various places, how to get boat insurance in various places etc. Nothing about the connections (if any) between these issues.

    Thanks very much in advance for any info, insights, or even best-guesses.
  2. olderboater, Sep 26, 2021
    #2
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,130
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Not really as complicated as you think. First, you don't mention the likely size of the boat you'd own. I assume from what you wrote that it would be owner operated without crew?

    You could register the boat in many places. A couple of the most popular are the Marshall Islands and Cayman Islands. You'd have to get cruising permits in the US and elsewhere but no big problem. You'd also have to conform with laws in each country as to length of time those permits are valid. For instance, in the US, it's a year, so foreign documented boats in Florida run across to the Bahamas annually and then renew. There are plenty of international firms that can assist in documenting in all these countries, referred to as flags of convenience.

    Insurance also not a problem as there are many boats registered in these countries. You're going to be looking for a global carrier anyway based on your travel. May be some advantages in not being in the US. Just you'll need a carrier licensed in the country of the boat, but that's not generally a problem.

    Your powered pleasure craft drivers license carries as little as zero value in the US to minimal value in some European countries. Here is where size is an issue as 24 meters does come with some requirements in Europe and some other countries.

    As to taxes and legal requirements for you as individuals, you are separate from your boat. Even the time you can be in a country is different than your boat. Boats get by on cruising permits and similar and you'll travel on passport and visas. There citizenship and residency become factors. I'm guessing you're still a Canadian citizen and a Singapore Permanent Resident or are you a dual citizen? As a Canadian citizen, you may need to watch your time in Canada as it could trigger taxes. I don't know Canadian law but if you were a US citizen, 60 days in the US would be your annual limit to still be considered an expatriate.

    Even when cruising, you'll find different rules for you vs your boat. Right now we're in Europe and out boat could stay longer but we're limited to the 90 days in 6 months of Schengen. We only have 15 days remaining in Schengen countries so next 7 days in Croatia which is not part of Schengen and we can stay longer in.
    Kafue likes this.
  3. Kevin R, Sep 26, 2021
    #3
    Kevin R

    Kevin R New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2021
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Singapore
    Thanks very much for the extremely useful information. It’s exactly what I was looking for. Much appreciated.

    It looks like this will be much simpler than I thought, given the separation of boat and owner. But I’m still a bit in the dark about the operators license. For example with cars if I go to the US, or Australia, or France or wherever I can still drive a car with my Singapore drivers license. If I stay beyond a certain time, I need to convert to the local license. How does this work for boats? I currently have no license or certificate or anything and was wondering if I should go through the Singapore PPCDL course, or wait and get it in Canada, or the US. I would like to do it just to get some experience, but was wondering if I need to still get a license for US/Canada cruising?

    Yes, I will need to watch my time in Canada too. I’m pretty sure the current law is 183 days in Canada in a given year makes you a resident.

    Regarding my choice of boat, right now it is little more than a checklist. I’m 6’4” tall and don’t want to be bent over all the time. I want it to be comfortable. I would like the boat to be as small as possible but still have:
    Helm, galley, salon, aft deck all on the same level (plus or minus a step or two is ok)
    Walk around side decks
    Stand-up engine room(s)
    Range, not speed

    So given this, I’m eyeing something along the lines of a 65’ Hatteras LRC or something equivalent. There was a Knight-Carver 65’ boat on YachtWorld recently which ticked all my boxes, and looked gorgeous too. I drooled over that one for a good long time. Something like that. I would probably want to hire a captain for the first little while, too, before we sail off on our own.

    Anyway that’s my thinking right now. Thanks again. Really appreciate your knowledge.