Pod drives for large yachts

There are a couple yachts with it. Lurssen's Ice, Alstom's Kogo, Pichotti's Grace E, Wider's Genesi all have them. Eclipse and Al Mirqab both have one center pod. The argument that I heard before is that it takes up valuable space in the stern so having traditional shafts is easier and probably less expensive.

In the megayacht market, I believe there are a lot of commercial options out there for them. I listed several examples from 150' to 531' and I know of smaller yachts, such as Icon's 30m under construction, or Jetsetter by Dynamic (120' or so off the top of my head) that have pods. I don't really think the argument is there for these other engine manufacturers for yachts in the 30-70' range HP limitations to be reflected in the mega yacht sector. It is a good argument from about 70' to 100' while talking about more planning boat designs. I'm surprised that manufacturers don't use ZF pods more in this size range. I think I've seen current offerings of MANs up to 1,200 HP coupled with them but they may have a higher HP option as well.

It's odd though that there is for the most part a huge void between smaller boats and large commercial ships in terms of pods and you look at a boat like the Jongert and they're talking about using pods that haven't been developed yet. Either the customer isn't wanting them or the builders are finding they just don't meet the need of yachts. I wish we knew from the builders the answer to that.

In the larger end of the yacht market the pods in use are predominately Azipods. Some are with the motors in the pods and supply air to keep the water out, others have the motor inside the ship and use right angle gears to transfer the drive.

The use of pods requires quite a beefing up of the stern area where the propellor thrust is transferred to the hull. This would normally be handled by a thrust block mounted in the shaft line.

I have recently been told by a builder that props and shafts are a cheaper build for a 150m vessel, I am waiting to find out how much cheaper and what they claim the differences will be in life cycle costs and the all important vibration levels should either option be chosen.

That's pretty much my understanding of it. It remains to be seen if the reduction in build cost is offset by more vibration and the cost of mitigating this.

The project mentioned above is not being built as yet, its still in the early discussion phase to see if what the yard can offer is along the lines of what the Owner will like and accept.

The cost of one of these is eye watering and even guys who can afford to own and operate one know what these big numbers are and are generally as frugal as the rest of us.

I've worked with both IPS and Zeus drives. As a Cummins man, I'd stick with IPS any day of the week.

Ok........what do you use your boat for? If you use your boat for real boating and not for just going few hours out of the port to swim, I will never buy a boat with IPS.
Advantages are a little less consumption, almost zero vibrations, very low noise, but let's talk of disadvantages : maintenance is more expensive, they suck in everything they find in the sea (which all the troubles you can image), and they are like two big hooks under your boat......safe? not really.
About docking, yes they have a joy stick, but if on your boat you have bow thruster you can do the same job without big problems. If you think you are very bad in manouvring, then a bow plus a stern thruster will solve the problem.
Anyway if you have to choose between Zeus and Ips, choose IPS. Zeus gives only problems.

Hello everyone, new member, first post.

Agree. I have a joystick and rarely use it. I would not spend the money on it again, and if there is another boat in our future, it's back to shafts and a thruster.

Hi Fletcher500, well the good options are shaft (not a V-drive, only extra problems for a bit of more space), surface (not Arneson, a lot of maintenance head aches, choose instead Topsystem ) or jet (in this case make sure it is an heavy duty one like Hamilton).
All the other propulsions are good just for going for a quick swim.

Welcome aboard. Force yourself to use it some and really learn when it can benefit you. Yes, you can do anything without a joystick you can with one. We don't have pods but we do have joysticks. There are times they are a remarkably useful tool. Our engines and thrusters are tied into ours so it's being able to use one control vs. many in maneuvering. Also learn to use your dynamic positioning when waiting for bridges or locks or other things. These may all be tools you didn't need, but they can be useful in some circumstances. If you don't attempt to increase your use of it, you'll never know. I have no interest in owning IPS or Zeus but I've found joysticks useful.

I am comfortable using the joystick, and have used it on occasion to walk sideways, or if the Admiral needs some extra time on windy day with a side tie. I grew up using the shifters, so that is where my comfort is.

In general, they are a great marketing tool for people who have not had much experience with boats, and want a large boat now, but that is a different discussion.

Regarding just good for a swim, I will disagree with that. We routinely run the boat on 50 - 250 mile trips (short trips in the world of cruising, but my wife and I still work, so hopefully longer trips are in our future when we retire in a few years ) and they work fine. My original post was more about the joystick. I just don't think they are worth it if the operator is already comfortable with shifters for maneuvering.

But, lots of advances and choices out there. Excting stuff.

If we are talking about joystick....well a nice marketing thing but basically useless if u have stern and bow thrusters, which by the way are much safer than a joystick with IPS system, since IPS has the fantastic quality to suck everything in, so it is kinda easy to end with a rope around your propeller. If instead it is a joystick connected to bow and stern thrusters, then ok you might be more happy to move only one level instead of 2, but I do not see the difference. About my comment that IPS are only good for a swim and not for cruising....well you can cruise without problems with IPS, but at your own risk : you have 2 or 3 or 4 (depending on how many engines u have) hooks under your boat, so everything you will find on your way (trunk, log......) will damage the system and, if the yard did not do his job properly, will open a huge hole under your boat. Obviously you should be unlucky, but I will never even think to go from Miami to Bahamas using a boat with IPS system, since I will not feel safe.

First, let me be upfront that I'm not a fan of Zeus or IPS although would choose IPS over Zeus. Our most recent boat was offered with either IPS or conventional shafts and we chose shafts. In doing so, we chose less efficient use of fuel. We did choose joysticks though.

However, our reasons were different than stated above. We were intending to cruise in many areas (covered about 6000 nm total the first year of use of that boat) and were concerned about the service on Volvo and IPS vs. MAN and conventional. Also, our own staff lacks IPS experience although they have a lot of pod experience in commercial applications.

To address the comments above. I wouldn't call IPS pods hooks and the risks versus conventional is only slightly greater. You hit things with any shafts and props and you may have damage. Conventional shafts are more likely, not less likely to lead to water ingress. However, conventional are also more likely to just have propeller damage with no other damage vs pods experiencing greater due to the angle. Regardless, to say IPS is not good for cruising is an opinion I can't agree with. Do they have disadvantages in some cruising areas? Perhaps. But they're used successfully and happily for many who cruise. We're taking degrees of difference between conventional shafts and pods, not the difference between night and day.

For one to say they wouldn't think of going from Miami to the Bahamas with an IPS system, since they'd feel unsafe, is fine if they feel that way, but there's not really much logic to support that, it's just an emotional thought. What are you going to encounter along the way that you fear? Is the Gulf Stream going to rip the pod off? Not many tree limbs in the middle of the ocean.

I wish Lars would speak up about Delta's experience with IPS as I know they've long been committed to that route.

Pods of various types have long been used commercially and with great success.

Now to joystick. The IPS system is simple and easy to us. There can be no disputing that. Add in the DPS functions and you have an excellent system. It is easier to dock using it than conventional controls on conventional drives. Now for those of us with experience, we're fine with conventional, but the IPS joystick in general makes the task easier.

You can achieve the same on conventional drives. Couple a joystick with thrusters and engines. You're talking one lever vs. two, three or four. You're talking one lever vs. two systems. You're talking one lever vs. throttle, shift, bow thruster and stern thruster. It's definitely easier to use and it requires less thought to do as you wish. It's not just docking, but in locks, waiting for bridges, many things. It also facilitates DPS and the two are often done in conjunction with each other. Sit at the Macy's parade where you can't move but must keep the engine on and you'll be thrilled you have DPS. Waiting for bridges and locks you will be.

There was a time people were opposed to combining two engines into a single control. Now that's the norm. At some point, I believe new builds without joysticks will be unusual. They'll become the norm just as having controls at multiple locations and/or having wireless controls are becoming.

I can operate a boat fine without joysticks. However, I still like having them and will use them.

Muscle, what boats with IPS have you run to give you such a negative opinion? What joystick systems on other boats? And what is there between Miami and the Bahamas you fear so with joysticks? I'm just asking to understand your experiences that have led you to such strong opinions.

I've only run two boats with joysticks, one with Zeus and one with IPS. Both were a pleasure to operate. This is from someone who chose not to buy them. I've run tens of thousands of miles on boats with conventional drives and joysticks and found them to be a nice additional piece of equipment.