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Our Navy's Stupid Mistakes

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by brian eiland, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    No cracks in my hull.
    Maybe these fancy designers need to get back to basics and what works.
    SFBs

    Sounds like some serious warranty claims......
  2. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    Hey now, some of us folks need jobs. I've got 2 of the LCS's in one of our yards now and 2 more coming. We're getting pretty good at fixing those cracks. :)
    Rerm likes this.
  3. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    It's sad how the Navy / DOD is dripping info on these two classes of vessels once they want to file 13 them. For the last ten years the critical failures in print were limited to the Renke combing gears for CODAG and the hilarious choice of Isotta Frachini generators aboard. Now we're told they're not mission capable with the Raytheon defense packages meant to be quickly swapped out and to add insult to injury the high stress points in the hull are cracking so they'll be limited to displacement speeds in lieu of the designed 45 - 50 knots. How the Navy didn't take serious notice of the HMS Shefield being obliterated by one French Exocet missile in the Falkland's in 1984 and still pursue a large surface fleet is beyond my pay grade. Current events in the Black Sea would lead me to believe the next big naval conflicts will be survived in submarines. Surface fleets are sitting ducks it seems.
    Scott W and Capt Ralph like this.
  4. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    There is a solution for failure...."your fired."
    chesapeake46, Scott W and Capt Ralph like this.
  5. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Heads should roll for allowing Italy's Fincantieri to partner in our defense force ship building industries and being the lead contractor procurement wise for the Freedom class LCS and to allow a foreign country ownership in our defense shipyards (Fincantieri Marinette). Fincantieri builds a fine cruise ship and a few sleek naval corvettes for themselves and has a 200 year history as a ship builder but come on now! The Isotta Frachini prime movers for Generators should have raised all kinds of red flags in the design/procurement stages as this engine manufacturer has been well known for unreliability for decades.
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    2 LCS's (Littoral Combat Ship) or LCM/LCU's??
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I have often complained about mixing foreign equipment in our DOD equipment.
    All was sure glad when France bailed out of our Abrams tank project years ago.
  8. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    2 ea LCS’ . We work on the variant 2 Independence Class. We have done four of them so far. Currently have USS Omaha LCS-12 on DryDock and finishing up USS Gabrielle Giffords that recently came off DryDock. By the way, this is at one of our other yards, not the Ketchikan yard. I keep my boat in Ketchikan because that’s where I like to boat and fish. Our shipyard there is our smallest yard. We have two much bigger yards where we work the big stuff like LCS, Destroyers, Cruisers, Cruise ships, etc. Also currently have 2(ea) Ticonderoga class guided missle cruisers as well.
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Wow, Farm out!!
  10. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    For sure when it comes to military equipment it should be manufactured here by US owned companies under strict supervision for obvious security reasons.
  11. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    The only logical reasons for allowing Fincantieri and Austal to set up shop in our military shipbuilding contracts would be their past experience building high speed multi hull aluminum ferries but the realities of civilian maritime builds vs exacting military builds are worlds apart.
  12. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    If you have knowledge of the difference in the builders capabilities for the project, those involved should have also. Beyond my pay grade but it does not surprise me we spent billions on a fleet of substandard ships from foreign sources. Has anyone been fired because this SNAFU?
  13. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Which is actually 100% true of Fincantieri US, with the only formal exception of belonging to an international group whose HQs happen to be in Italy - and which probably isn't even aware of what their US operations are doing.
    OTOH, my understanding is that several "US owned" companies (even defense contractors, let alone the rest!) are known to have sourced components from the People's Republic, in order to save some pennies even on contracts with outrageous margins.
    Mind, I understand the attraction of fingerpointing at anything because "not invented here".
    But beware of the risk to miss the forest for the trees, if you see what I mean...
  14. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Exactly, they may not know what US operations are doing. Not good practice to source something as important as military equipment overseas. We are not talking about trivial stuff.
  15. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    My point is that if there's one thing that doesn't make sense when talking of Fincantieri US, it's calling them an overseas supplier.
    Mind, I have no clue about the extent of their faults in this story - if any.
    But what I'm willing to bet on is that all folks involved in any relevant decisions in Marinette would struggle to order a pizza, if they should ask the waiter in Italian.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    One other major reason. Others don't want to do it. Would you really want to contract to build for the Navy with their history of design issues, of build problems, and with all the challenges of working with them? I know builders who once built smaller vessels for the Navy and CG, but that was only to supplement their business, and once they didn't need that business, they dumped it.
  17. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    Name a company that hasn't made a profit on a Navy production contract.
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Name a politician involved who has not made a profit on a Navy production contract.
    Everybody gets something when a boat is built..
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  19. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Good point, this problem should have been solved by the Navy brass years back. Time to fire some folks!
  20. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    How can you fire Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld? He forced the Navy to include the LCS in any shipbuilding plans the Navy submitted in 2001; the Navy never wanted the LCS.