Click for YF Listing Service Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Mulder Click for Abeking Click for JetForums

New Boater

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Ormond Bert54, Mar 30, 2009.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    470
    Location:
    Ormond Beach, FL
    Should be closing on the purchase of my first boat in another week or so. It's a 1981 Bertram 28. It will be based in Northport Maine where we spend the summertime. I plan to use it as a family cruiser, friends and family fishing boat and a boat to do some exploring in.

    I enjoy technical things and look forward to understanding this amazing piece of machinery.

    As a long time private pilot and small airplane owner, I am accustomed to routine maintenance schedules associated with airplanes and figure there are a few similarities when it comes to boats. I am looking forward to learning.

    I need to take an approved course of some sort to be safe. Are approved courses generally offered by private individuals. I would prefer not to take a classroom course but instead get approved lessons from a private individual on the boat I'm buying.

    Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

    Mike
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,546
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    coming to boating as a pilot, you obviously have an edge when it comes to navigation, safety and understanding that a boat is not a car...

    there are a number of near useless basic online classes you can take, but you best bet woudl be to hire a captain for a couple of days to show you handling as well as routine maintenance and systems overview.

    and buy yourself Chapman's Piloting... it's teh bible! covers everything from handling and nav rules to weather and maintenance.
  3. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    470
    Location:
    Ormond Beach, FL
    Got it ... Chapman's Piloting ... will do.

    I expect the insurance company to demand that I take a US Coast Guard approved course of some sort. Should I expect that?

    Mike
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,546
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    for a 28 footer? not necessarily. They might give you a discount if you pass an approved course, or they might require some training on the water with a captain... depends, probably not for a 28 footer.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Please, Please, Please take a basic boating course. They're given by the U.S. Power Squadron and the Coast Guard Auxilary. It will probably bore you, but do it anyway. Then take a lesson on your boat. I've found that a 3 hour lesson by a qualified captain who's used to teaching is generally sufficient on a boat that size, to teach you about your boat, how to maintain it, how to use your electronics and drill you on boat handling (much like touch & goes). During that time you should also get a wealth of information about your area and how to read the waters. BTW, check with your DMV about licensing requirements. DK if one is needed in Maine.
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,534
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I agree, definately take the coast guard auxillary course, which will teach you all of the fundamentals about safety, rules of the road, anchoring, and usage. Do this before hiring a professional.

    I also agree with hiring a Captain after that to teach you operation and maintanence, but feel 3 hours is a bit light. I would say a full day or two would be better, if it's your first boat.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    That's just different styles. I work the student intensly for those 3 hours and find it unproductive to do it for longer as fatigue sets in, and generally one lesson is enough on a boat less than 32' IF they practice what they've learned. Again though different captains have different styles and they're the best ones to determine what works for them and the particular student. I've had students who thought they knew everything and a month of Sundays wouldn't be enough time. The best was a fellow I taught one April. He did very well. After July 4th he called me for another lesson saying that over the holiday he came in and smacked half the boats around him. I was surprised and asked him when he had the boat out before that and he said "When you gave me the lesson". Guys like that need a captain whenever they leave the dock.
  8. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    NYCAP- I think you have made a typo, that word in bold text is spelt boredom from where I see it :D
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,546
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    3 hours is barely enough to cover basic docking, not time to teach the electronics, systems, maintenance and safety overview or anchoring.

    from what i see out there, anchoring seems to be even more of a problem than docking for a majority of boaters. last week end, i saw about half a dozen boats failing to set anchor in a spot where i know mine always set on first attempt. The most fun to watch was a 75ish MY who made 3 attempts, dragging away 3/4 of mile between each reset. Looked they had a "crew" on board too... It looks like business as usual during dragging, launching the toys, serving drinks, etc...
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Definitely not boredom. I drill on docking using multiple slips to put the wind and current from every possible direction, and practice recovering from when the boat's lost to the conditions. Probably 30 to 40 dockings in that 3 hours on top of learning engine room checks, maintenance, emergency procedures, use of their radar & GPS/chartplotter, reading the waters and any other weakness they may have. Afterwards I'm available by phone for any questions they may have about places to go and things they may encounter. My 3 hour lessons are seldom 3 hours. I don't have time to waste and they're not paying to go for a cruise. Boredom never comes into it.
  11. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    Giving you an average of 35 dockings this works out to 5.14 mins each.( I am assuming that 1 hr is 60 mins even in NYC)

    This doesn't allow any time for the rest of what you say you are giving as instructions.

    I find it inconceivable that you could teach any sort of meaningful maintenance other than how to use the phone book to call someone who can fix it for you in the time frame you quote here.

    I certainly don't think reading the waters is a skill that can be taught in one 3 hr lesson in the same day even without the speed docking phase as the water look can change so much it needs to be observed on many different days and in different conditions to get the hang of what one is really seeing
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Anchoring is definately a problem, but the theory of anchoring can be taught in 5 minutes (bow into wind or current, plenty of scope, room to swing, take bearings, set anchor watch and maintain a watch). From there it's practice. Of course, for larger yachts it is more complicated than just that (mulitple anchors, bahamian style, med moore, etc.), but those boats are not my area. On a 75 footer docking isn't much of a problem because she holds well against wind and current. On a 26' cabin boat with a single I/O docking is a B with a 15kt wind on the beam.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Guess you now see why boredom doesn't enter into it. I teach maintenance, not mechanics (caring for the finishes, cleaning the a/c filters, clearing strainors and racors, pointing out pumps, seacocks,dip sticks, belts, hoses, etc. How to check them, NOT how to fix them). They're not getting their hands dirty. It's a feat to get most of these people into their engine rooms once a day. Many of those dockings are pull out, spin it 180 drop it into that slip, back out, spin it 90, back down the slot, spin it 90 and drop it into that one. That's 3 dockings in less than 10 minutes and learning how to think and react fast. We start practice by "docking" at an open water object (buoy, pole, etc.) from four directions. Those take moments. Many of the dockings are aborted attempts. There could be 4 or 5 of those in 10 minutes. Believe me, I've been at this for a while. There's no exageration. As long as the student practices what he's been taught one or 2 lessons is usually enough for under a 32 footer. Over that it takes several lessons or a few days and over 50' I'm usually on for at least the season.
  14. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    I'm not disputing at all, but 32' strikes me as an arbitrary size which you've used twice in this thread.
    What is the significant difference between 31' and 33'?
    Again, not picking a fight- just curious.
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    I would say the short answer is 24"
  16. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    :D
    Leave it to an engineer...
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    There aren't that many 33's built. Mostly 31/32-34/36. Over 32 you're usually dealing with inboards (often diesel), wider beams, more weight and more complicated systems where 31's are more often I/O's with simple mechanicals. Also, over 32' you're more often dealing with someone who has had a boat before. The little boater wants to learn the fundamentals. The larger boater understands the investment he's making better. It's sort of like the fact that the difference between 46' and 50' is probably the biggest 4' in boating. With a 46 you just go and there will probably be a slip available. Over 50' you better call ahead. It's all on a case by case basis though. I once taught a woman on an 11 footer (still can't believe that) who will never get it. I've taught guys on 50's and 60's who just needed a little confidence boost. Whatever is needed they get, but I don't waste people's time or money. I don't book multiple lessons in advance on small boats because they have to be on their own as soon as possible or else they develop a dependence that they can't afford. I have no intention of being a full-time captain for a 28 footer.
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    .....:D
  19. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,546
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    either way probably works but i find it more pleasant for the "student" to have time to digest the practice, discuss it, see what worked and what didn't work.

    boating is supposed to be fun, It's nice for people to have a good time while they learn...

    reminds me of my flying days... i've had many instructors over the years whether for private, then commercial, multi, instrument, etc.. and prefered the relaxed types to the drill sargents that dont' give you any time to let what you learn sink in.
  20. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    Nice work if you can get it ;)