Click for Mulder Click for Glendinning Click for Cross Click for Westport Click for JetForums

Negotiating Charter contract

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Danvilletim, Jan 23, 2015.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Trying to book a spring break charter and we have done a couple. The broker contract (MYBA) is so written to protect the owner and broker. I hate to cancel the kids vacation, but I would never sign such a one sided contract in business.

    Why I'm agreeing to certain salvage terms is absurd. I don't think most consumer have any idea or care to learn about maritime salvage laws.

    All the money is given to the broker but if something goes wrong, they have no liability. You don't talk to the owner,most here is a huge opportunity for misunderstanding.

    Has anyone had luck editing one of these? Tips?
  2. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    Have a Maritime Attorney review it.
  3. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    It's a fairly straight forward contract, which I've never seen negotiated or altered (although, I've probably only signed and operated on a few dozen MYBA agreements).
    I think you should pick the right broker, find a great boat & crew, sign the contract, and enjoy the heck out of your vacation.
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    How can you tell that while it may have an MYBA header it is the real deal?
  5. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    the MYBA contract is so universal and simple, you can google it and compare what you are signing to the MYBA template.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,130
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I've signed the MYBA contract many times and have no issues with it. Your issue appears to be with the one section, Clause 21, related to Brokers. This is quite normal in defining the role of the broker. They are simply brokers. They are not the primary parties to the agreement as they don't own the boat, nor are they chartering it. So they're held harmless against anything done by the owner or charterer. This contract also makes things very clear to owner and charterer as to their obligations.

    The contract also does cover what happens to the money and when.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Of course the contract is written for the protection of the person presenting it. It's their contract. Nobody is obligated to sign a contract against their interests. Negotiate it. Cross out and initial the parts you find objectionable, and return it with your deposit. If they refuse to accept it, forget them and bring your family on a different (and probably better) type of vacation. Beats spending your vacation worrying about how you might be putting yourself in jeopardy. Remember, the fool isn't the one who asks for the world. The fool is the one who gives it to them. Also remember that, while your money is still in your pocket, they need you more than you need them.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,130
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The contract is written to clearly state the obligations of the Owner and the Charterer. Nothing evil or hidden or some other motivation. The broker is just that, a broker, and the contract is written as a standard by the Mediterranean Yacht Brokers Association. There is no unusual jeopardy that this puts a charterer into. Have you even read the contract, Nycap?
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,546
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Charter contracts are pretty basic and offer decent protection for all sides

    I m not sure there is much to negotiate. The key is to use a reputable broker and a pick a boat/crew with a good track record.
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    No need to. I was talking about contracts in general. The OP is the one who found this particular contract didn't suit him. Others aren't bothered by it. I simply pointed out that, just because someone presents you with a contract doesn't mean it can't be changed or refused. If the boat's calendar is full, they won't budge. If they need the work they will. Beats an empty charter yacht sitting on the dock draining the owner's wallet instead of filling it.
  11. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,184
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    The MYBA contract gets addendums and changes once in a blue moon and these can be found by looking through the past issues of the Compass magazine put out by the FYBA. if your so inclined. I don't believe that I've ever heard of a negative outcome with this contract unless there was some negligence on the part of the charterer violating the terms set forth in the charter agreement. I have had the experience where an owner wanted to use his vessel during the same dates as the charterer and a duly executed and signed MYBA contract was in place. The owner bumped the charter & used his vessel but it cost him close to a million dollars in restitution and damages to the charter client as he was protected by the MYBA contract for just that scenario. The boat ended up chained to the dock in Brindisi Italy for a couple of weeks for that stunt . It also cost this owner future charters as no brokers would touch the boat after that incident. This owner started his own in house charter clearing house business and terrorized his poor office secretaries trying to operate it. 16 months later he wasn't a yacht owner anymore.
    You can always feel better about the negotiations if needed by negotiating your APA or "Advance provisioning Allowance" and then say to yourself " Yeah , I showed them! I withheld some $$ up front so now there wont be any lobster or Stoli. just Burgers and beer!! But I feel better...;)
  12. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Great info. The contract doesn't provide for damages. If the boat doesn't show up, you get your money back. Then your stuck in Nassau with no realistic option. Life happens but you are relying on the broker to sort out good boats / crew from bad boats. Funny thing is that they keep their commission and have no liability if the crew flakes and does a no show.
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,130
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Actually it does provide for damages. And if it's a non-go and the charter is terminated then the broker keeps nothing.

    e) If the cancellation is for any reason, other than force majeure, the CHARTERER shall be entitled to repayment without interest
    of the full amount of all payments made by him to the OWNER or Stakeholder, and shall in addition be entitled to liquidated damages
    to be calculated and paid forthwith on the following scale:
    i) thirty (30) days or more before commencement of the Charter Period, an amount equivalent to twenty five percent (25%) of the
    Charter Fee.
    ii) more than fourteen (14) days but less than thirty (30) days before commencement of the Charter Period, an amount equivalent
    to thirty five percent (35%) of the Charter Fee.
    iii) fourteen (14) days or less before commencement of the Charter Period, an amount equivalent to fifty percent (50%) of the
    Charter Fee.
    As to crew issues, pick a reputable broker and that's not likely to be an issue. And, if there's a problem with a crew member, they'll do all they can to rectify it. We've personally ended up hiring 4 crew members we met on charters. But a crew no-show would have the penalties outlined.
  14. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Ohhhhhhh. That wasn't in my contract. That evens the playing field greatly. I'd sign that! I guess I was presented w a slightly modified MYBA contract that's was represented as standard. Hmm. Not sure the trust factor is going so well with this one.
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    That was what I was getting at in Post No 4
  16. Minnow

    Minnow New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Depending on the flag of the yacht and locale you may not have a choice of contracts but the AYCA bareboat charter agreement is one we operate on almost exclusively.