What would the rig of a modern square-rig look like, if designed for a reduced crew, but NOT a DynaRig? Would it be possible for in-spar sail furling on all masts? And what of stay sails? Would it be possible for them to be equipped with furlers, as most jibs are furled? A clipper of similar size to Maltese Falcon, but with a classic look to her?
Have a look at these discussions: http://www.weatherlysquareriggers.com/ http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5991 I'll have some more comments later but no time at the moment
Square Rigger, but not Dynarig I’m having little trouble figuring out what you want to accomplish by way of your original posting. Is it an ‘appearance factor’ that most drives your desires? Do you disapprove of the ‘modern’ appearance of Maltese Falcon’s dynarig, and you want something more traditional in appearance? Are you willing to put up with the traditional staying of the traditional square rigger as opposed to the ‘free-standing mast’ of the dynarig? It is this free-standing aspect that sets its looks apart from the tradition rig. Of course realize you will lose significant windward ability with traditional rigging. Is this your desire to make the traditional square-rigger more user friendly for short-handed sailing? Are you asking if the rectangular sails can be furled up in a horizontal manner about the yardarms? This is highly doubtful due to the ‘arched’ shape of these yards. Even if you could furl the sail about a curved arc, you could not attain a proper curved arc attachment at the opposite edge of the rectangular sail. Is there an economic factor, or a complication factor in your question? Do you have a problem with the perceived cost and/or complication with the dynarig solution on Maltese Falcon, and you are looking for another solution(s)?? I do have in mind a vertical furling solution for the rectangular sails that could simplify the situation, and lower the cost to build.
In many respects it is an appearence factor. I do not disapprove of the look of Maltese Falcon, just that I prefer the look of the old clippers. How much of the windward ability of MF and other modern sailors is due to the rig, and how much is due to the huge keel? Ships never used to have much of a keel, maybe only 1' or slightly more, unlike the huge keel on the Falcon? She draw's 36' with the keel, only 19' without. My post was mis-writen, I was intending more for a modernIZED rig, as opposed to a modern rig. In terms of furling, would 18 spars with mechanical furling into the spar be complicated? I have no problem with some standing and running rigging.
Ahh, s/v Royal Clipper... I love that sail vessel.,. modern version of the Prussen clipper from some time in the late early 20Century. The Royal clipper is very impressive from close. Her sail system is located within the spars and pulled out via ropes attatched to the two ends of each square sheet.
When I saw the show about her on Discovery a year or two back I was astounded at how few people were actually involved in the sailing of the vessel. Unfortunately I can't remember the numbers now, sorry. The site stats that her crew compliment is 107... and since her passenger capacity is 227, it's a pretty fair assumption to say that most of those 107 crew are there for the passenger's and not for the sailing.
Kevin, the Royal Clipper's sail system for the most part is automated and is either controlled from the bridge or by remote control?(not 100% on the last bit) The 100+ crew of the Clipper is basically for th passengers and running the other aspects of the vessel. Even though the stay sheets are winched up they can be raised by the olden elbow grease.
Yeah, that's basically what I remember from the show... the basic day-to-day operation of the ship requires no more crew than a smiliar sized motor vessel would call for.
Oh yea, the spars swivel around the mast. You know, like the opposite to what happens with the Maltese Falcon- where her entire mast rotates and the dyna spars are fixed- Swivelling spars the size as on Royal Clipper must have been an engineering problem.
I very much doubt that it would be a problem, certainly not compared to MF. After all, rotating the spars is what is the traditional way, and the Preussen had hydraulic winches controlling the spars in 1902.
True, I just was so amazed at the time when Royal Clipper was introduced that I did not remember. It is not only rotating spars that are amazing but the vertical lifted spars that are seen on Sea Cloud II? and other sailvessels.
I'm sorry Ekiqa, I misinterpeted what you were asking I guess. I thought you were looking to REALLY modernize the square rigger to the same degree that Falcon has done, but in a more traditional look. I'm assuming you mean in spar furling for all yards or yardarms. This is nothing really new, I'm sure many modern square riggers have this feature. Problem is the yardarm spars must be straight and thus do not impart the ideal shape to their sails for any windward work I'm confused again. Are we talking swiveling spars, or rotating spars? I assume we want to have the rotating spars (yards) in order to furl the sails up....this can be done hydraulically. Then are we to have the swiveling function controlled by hydraulics as well? The lever arm forces here are significant, and for each spar (yard)...LOTS of weight in this rig With these spars both furling and swiveling under automation things get pretty heavy up top No problem The rig has to be optimized in its aerodynamics to be capable of good windward ability. If not, no amount of keel will help you, but only slow you down. This is the single biggest step forward with Maltese Falcon. First, the sail shapes are optimized by the 12.5 degree arched yardarm spars that control the camber of the rectangular sail. I'm not sure I know of any other arched spars on square-riggers?? Secondly, the free-standing carbon mast of Maltese Falcon allow for the yardarm spars to be swiveled (rotated actually) around much further than with the traditional square-rigger where the rigging holding up the main mast does not allow the yards to rotate to this degree. This means we can orient that 'cambered sail-foil' into the apparent wind in a much more advantageous manner...our pointing capability is MUCH improved...we can now go to weather in a square rigger! You could put a 'traditional' looking hull and deck under a free-standing square rig sailplan....?? Note the rotation here with the Dynarig...thru about 130 degrees...no 360's
Just happened across this site with quite a few photos of square riggers; http://www.scmncamogli.org/pagine/nlong_ier.htm
