Click for Cheoy Lee Click for Llebroc Click for Cross Click for Nordhavn Click for Mag Bay

Marine Batterys

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by Anthony hall, Oct 2, 2022.

  1. Anthony hall

    Anthony hall New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Texas,Florida
    I'm thinking of replacing the battery's on my 63 viking EAD with these

    Valence U-CHARGE XP U27-12XP Lithium iron Phosphate 12V 138Ah Battery 1766wh

    Anybody have any experience with them? And are they worth the Expense?
  2. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,303
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Here we go again. Search here for "lithium". It's been discussed quite a bit. Lithium is nice when it works. It burns hot. It doesn't extinguish. I wouldn't want to be on a vessel at sea surrounded by it.
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    7,348
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Made in china. What could possibly go wrong :)

    If if they were made in the US, these are pretty much group 27 batteries used for small engines. And you want to use them on a 63 Viking ? How many will you need?

    on a boat that size, there is plenty of space for traditional AGMs and weight isn’t a concern. Why bother?

    lithium is still too risky for me to use on a boat.
  4. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,303
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Agreed. I went full Odyssey AGM 31 series which gives me the ability to shuffle batteries in a bind. I have two small lithium batteries aboard for powering a couple of folding Jupiters, and I keep them near a door within a small fire safe.
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    11,038
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Lots of these batteries are available used at present. If your looking at those, There is a reason they are cycled out of the road trucks so often.
    Also, you will need a Battery monitor controller.
    Finally, a call you your insurance company will probably put these thoughts to bed.

    Keep it simple and safe (KISS). Pickup the better AGMs and go cruising/fishing and sleep well.
  6. timvail

    timvail Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    georgian bay penetanguishene
    We are in our second year with Lith/Iron battery for our house bank. Just for the boat to bed for the winter and turned it and inverter etc off for the winter again. We seldon run a generator in our next of the woods because of the noise etc. The Lith/Iron system with the built in BMS manages quite well. It is nice to be up at 530 in the morning with a hot pot of coffee waiting to watch the wildlife moving about. Coffee pot drawing 16 amps while the solar is putting back 14 amps. By 10am battery is fully charged.
    Oh, and US made as well, all except for the victron equipment. And insurance company is fine with it as long as professional installed.
    captholli likes this.
  7. Anthony hall

    Anthony hall New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Texas,Florida
    OK! Well that settles that. Main bank will be AGM 31 series, and I will take time as per Captain Ralph to look at House batteries. All that being said I don't want to burn and drown!! Always good to have the experience here to help. Its very much appreciated.
  8. timvail

    timvail Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    georgian bay penetanguishene
    People still confuse Lithium Ion with Lithium Iron.
    Lithium Iron is a different chemical composition than Lithium Ion.
    I know of 20-25 other boaters in our group who have similar setups. One boater has had Lithium Iron for the past 4 years with no complaints. And yes I have AGMs for the mains and generator.
  9. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2022
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    At Sea
    You're referring to lithium-iron-phosphate (LiFePO4), which is obviously a form of lithium-ion chemistry. Whilst these are undoubtedly 'safer' (i.e. the reactions are more stable) than lithium polymer types, one of the trade-offs is reduced energy density.

    Interesting to note that for USCG-certified commercial installations, adherence to ASTM F3353 is required. There is no distinction between lithium-ion chemistries in this document. All types require fire mitigation practices, such as enclosures, monitoring, ventilation, extinguishing systems, etc.
    bliss likes this.
  10. timvail

    timvail Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    georgian bay penetanguishene
    O course, you are correct; they are from the same family. However, considered safer to use. And yes professionally installed as per Canadian Regulations suggest. The Lifepod4 is becoming more common as the stigma attached to Lithium is becoming clearer. As I said in my previous post, we have completed our second season with our Lifepo4 as house batteries with no concerns or complaints. Will not hesitate to incorporate it in our next boat.
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    11,038
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Oh Sheet!!
    Went up to Jax today. My inverter batteries roller and died at the dock in 5 minutes while I was throwing lines off.
    Good thing I have that big-asp 24V alternator, it carried the load while Josie was cooking dinner in the crock pot.
    I broke down the 6 x 2 bank and applied the toaster to each. One 4 year old bat I can still weld with. The 5 & 6 year olds are all dead.

    Now shopping for the vertical AGM Telco batteries.
    Whooaa, the prices have gone out the roof (towards Mars).

    Even with the fancy lithium batteries, NOT going there.
    I loose no sleep over any work or devices on our 44 year old Bertram MY.
    Not going to play battery games on something so counter productive as a lithium battery.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2022
  12. timvail

    timvail Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    georgian bay penetanguishene
    Good morning Ralph. Not sure what you mean by counterproductive, re the Lithium? I do subscribe to the Kiss principle as a rule. However, after seeing the real-life use of the Lithium we have had with other boaters for five years, I decided to test the new and now-proven technology. I do sleep well at night knowing that I have lots of amps for the morning pot of coffee even though the fans are running all night with the fridge and freezer. And a bonus that by 10am were back to 100%.
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    7,348
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    But you can pretty much get the same results with regular batteries. The downside is that is takes more room and weight but that’s rarely a factor on 40-50+ boats.

    Years ago I set up an inverter system on a 70 footer as the owner wanted to use the boat on a mooring. 16 golf cart batteries have us about 16 hours of inverter run time for the lights, fridges/ice makers etc. we d run the gen 5 hours at night and 3 in the morning for cooking, water maker etc.
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    11,038
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Probably not the best word I could of used for a boat install (counterproductive).
    For a boat, IMO, These fancy batteries are not safe enough yet.
    So I should used a phrase like ; Unproven safety or use with caution.

    I would like to ad; Not worth the complication also.
    Keep it SIMPLE and Safe.

    My counterproductive comment belongs to the electric cars.
    Luckily, were a boat forum.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2022
    Chris229 likes this.
  15. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,303
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    Lithium systems explode. They burn white hot. They take a significant effort to extinguish. If it's on board, you need (my opinion) to have temp sensors and an automated extinguishing system associated. I don't see any reward whatsoever in the risk. I really don't care what Canadian regulators have to say on the subject. I care about my own life and the safety and well being of anyone I bring aboard.

    Government regulators have no responsibility when your boat catches fire and people are hurt or worse. You have no idea what's happening behind the curtains to make such an approved regulation occur. However you do have good common sense at your own disposal.

    I've been at the dock when a large vessel took to white flames and burned. It was merely several feet from where I slept, and the quick actions of a small boat armed with a small anchor on a length of chain, we were able to cut her lines loose and pull her into the harbor, away from the docks.

    Risk reward.
    chesapeake46 likes this.
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    11,038
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    ABYC finally put together a Lithium Ion battery install chapter this last summer.
    Any ABYC members here that can forward me a copy?
  17. timvail

    timvail Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    georgian bay penetanguishene
    Well, all I can think of is WOW!!
  18. timvail

    timvail Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    georgian bay penetanguishene
    Ralph, do you know if they are putting Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron in the same boat, so to speak?
  19. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,303
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    That's fine. Feel free to disagree, as you don't get to make my risk reward choices for me, and I doubt we share adjoining marina slips any time soon.
  20. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    11,038
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    I was reading my Professional Boat Builder #199 magazine this morning. A short article on the ABYC 2022-23 standards were updated this passed summer. The article stated a new E-13 Lithium Ion Battery section was created.
    I am not a ABYC member and do not have access to their publications any more. Just would like to read up and learn more about standardized marine installations of this new stuff.

    As much as it scares me (L-I), I need to read up and learn more about it.