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Kayaks in the shipping channel

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Bamboo, Dec 10, 2010.

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  1. Bamboo, Dec 10, 2010
    #1
    Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    I came back from my fishing trip today and new owner of a boat was entering LakeWorth Inlet and he made contact with a 70 year old kayaker who was fishing near sunset. The boat was a 47 foot power cat and the kayaker according to him actually went between the hulls and exited the rear. His kayak was cracked a bit but still very seaworthy. He had no signal devices- flags, whistles, lights, horns- just himself. The speed at impact was less than 3 knots according to both parties. According to both parties there were three people on the bridge of the power vessel and none of them saw the kayaker before "impact". Both parties came to my home marina and waited for LEO to arrive and they filled out a short form and came to an agreement ($) and one party took to the form to fill out and return, and the other wrote a check. I've seen many kayakers with little regard for personal safety in the shipping channel and nearby areas around the inlet. What do you think of this incident and kayaks in and around areas heavily used by commercial and recreational boating traffic?
  2. Fishtigua, Dec 10, 2010
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    Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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  3. Ward, Dec 10, 2010
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    Ward

    Ward Senior Member

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    I think that out of simple self-preservation a small vessel like a kayak or dinghy should stay out of the way of bigger boats. Even if the rules of the road give you the right of way, a kayak "near sunset" can't be easy to spot, and the bigger boat probably isn't the one that's going to get damaged.

    OTOH, I know the courts don't always rule that way. There was the case here several years ago where an inexperienced new boat owner let themselves drift in a ferry lane (and went below) and were run down, but even though the ferry had limited room to maneuver they were found at fault.
  4. Capt J, Dec 11, 2010
    #4
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Legally Kayaks I don't think they can be in the shipping channel I believe. Although they are an un-registered vessel such as a surfboard. Would it be legal for someone to be in the shipping channel in a kayak? I think they should stay out of the channel whenever possible, as they easily can stay out of the channel. I also see a lot of kayakers have NO common sense. I was going through the ICW inside of that spot that really shoals west of Haulover inlet in a 75' MY, out of gear and drifting through that spot at 3 knots and 2 kayaks paddled right in front of my bow and I had to put 1 in gear to keep in the channel and gain a little foward momentum and had to wait for them to cross as I almost drifted out of the channel, gave them the horn, and they flick me off.
  5. chesapeake46, Dec 11, 2010
    #5
    chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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  6. NYCAP123, Dec 11, 2010
    #6
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Good sense should persuade a kayaker stay clear of main seaways however, they have the right to be anyplace they choose, same as a row boat and same as a snailboat. It's the powered craft that has the obligation to spot and deal with them. If you aren't paying enough attention to spot a kayaker what chance would a swimmer or a person who fell overboard have. Then again, at the size of a kayak it could have been a log or 55 gal drum. The helmsman was not paying attention. And 3 on the bridge didn't see it? Were they watching the TV?:(
  7. saltysenior, Dec 11, 2010
    #7
    saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    from the rule book .......maintain a proper lookout...
  8. Bamboo, Dec 11, 2010
    #8
    Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    I'd bet a good lawyer could tell us a 6 year old has the right to ride his tricycle in the back of a wal-mart loading dock filled with semi tractors moving around and conducting business and the operators ought to watch out for the tyke at all times also. The LEO and both the kayaker and (the 3 on) the bridge agreed they were paying attention and did not spot the kayak.

    Besides the fact that he does not have the right to be interfering with vessels in a narrow channel or fairway over 20 meters.

    Please review rule 9b.

    "Per the Coast Guard Captain of the Port, the shipping channels ... are considered "Narrow Channels" for the purposes of enforcing Rule 9 of the Inland Navigation Rules.

    "A vessel of less than 20 meters in length, or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only within the narrow channel or fairway." USCG Inland Navigation Rules, Rule 9(b)."
    Lake Worth Inlet is a narrow channel.

    Yes 47 feet is not over 20 meters, but I have had to avoid, and seen many others over 20 meters have to avoid them.
  9. Bamboo, Dec 11, 2010
    #9
    Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    And three on the bridge is not a proper lookout? The kayak in a shipping channel not seeing a 15+ meter power boat coming up on him and not moving is a maintaining a proper lookout?
    "In the Steering and Sailing Section 1 of the Coast Guard Navigation Rules, Rule 5 states that "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper lookout by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." Simply put, look around and listen for danger in all conditions so you can make good decisions and avoid hitting another boat."
    I'd venture to say they did so, and the LEO stated they were not at fault. A kayak is hard to spot even with a proper lookout when in front of a vessel when the sun is setting in your eyes.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  10. NYCAP123, Dec 11, 2010
    #10
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Don't even need a 'good' lawyer. A 6 year old is allowed and should be expected to ride his trike anywhere he'd gets a whim to. His parents have the responsibility, and yes the semi can not run him over. Good analogy though, because the kayaker has the same responsibility as the 6 year old. None. It doesn't matter who agreed that the 3 on the bridge were paying attention. If you don't see a kayak in your path you're not paying good enough attention. BTW, a kayak is considerably larger than the dive flags towed by the divers who come off the beach. Who do you think bears responsibility if you run over the diver? A proper watch sees everything. Anything he doesn't is a failure.
  11. luckylg, Dec 12, 2010
    #11
    luckylg

    luckylg New Member

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    Kayaks...the bicyclists of the waterways.
  12. K1W1, Dec 12, 2010
    #12
    K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    How many in the US who are not involved in something that uses them actually know what a meter was in length without the aid of Google?

    Why would rules that deal with Inland Waterways in the US use Metric measurements?
  13. Fishtigua, Dec 12, 2010
    #13
    Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    Metric is getting to be a universal measurement worldwide. We all know what a metre is.

    A Yard. :D
  14. Bamboo, Dec 12, 2010
    #14
    Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    I guess you assume all Americans are stupid, and we don't know how long a meter is, eh? Sheesh.
  15. Bamboo, Dec 12, 2010
    #15
    Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    So a child that gets the whim to ride his trike on the highway is allowed to do so and can continue at will? How about the train tracks? Is it the train operators fault if he hits the child? You really believe that?

    The LEO did not agree with your second statement, neither did the two parties.

    Both parties may bear responsibility, which will be determined by a court of law.
  16. NYCAP123, Dec 12, 2010
    #16
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Back during the Regan years the U.S. decided to go along with the rest of the world, changing some standards, pushing for others. Most of us got that a meter is about 3 feet so we know that a 20 meter boat is about 65' (the original size learned). Some product manufacturers saw the opportunity to sound bigger (cigarettes are 100mm), and some saw the opportunity to sell less for more (2 ltr. soda and recently 1.5ltr). Other than that it's generations away from being widely accepted, except where it relates to work (for tools metric really simplifies). It's almost like changing a populations language. Just wait till you try getting us to drive on the "wrong" side of the road.:D
  17. Pascal, Dec 12, 2010
    #17
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The kayaker should have been more careful crossing the channel but no matter how you cut it it is inexcusable for a boat to hit a kayak or anything for that matter. Three guys on the bridge and they didn't see a kayak???