Joystick docking without pods

Yeah, of course, all good captains do this and such without any computers. But, you have to be fairly good to do it.......But the bowthruster can only be used for limited periods of time......like less than a minute.

With most boats it's done without the thrusters (cheaters). Joysticks with pods just make it point and shoot. Great for amateurs and handy in real tight space maneuvering.

Split the gears to move the stern sideways and use the grinder to move the bow the same way... Why would you want an extra computer ?

Cause it's sometimes fun to just play and not have to think.

but they can be used for longer if they're hydraulic, right?

It depends on the system. If Hydraulic is engineered properly yes. The problem with Hydraulic is that it builds a lot of heat in the fluid when you are using the thruster (or anything else) and the heat exchanger and raw water cooling pump have to be large enough to dissapate the heat fast enough. On most hydraulic systems (yachts) lets say on a non mega-yacht 1-2 minutes or so is about maximum in one solid burst, maybe as much as 5 minutes on rare occassions.

What NEMO is referring to are the JMS (joystick manuevering system) by ZF and the EJS (express joystick system) by Twin Disc, where indeed a computer is in control via your fingertips. Have had 3 separate occasions to play with them, and a hydraulic thruster is a must if you use it a lot or will hold station for extended period. Compared to Zeus and IPS, it is not as responsive in fine movements, a bit on the clunky side, and loud like the typical vertical lawn mower, but it does work. And at least you can turn it off if it fails.

As you can with IPS & Zeus. Axius (Mercruiser I'Os) is a whole nuther kettle of fish. With that the drives flop around when backing into a strong current without using the joystick.

There is no doubt that the lion's share of seasoned skippers would prefer two big wheels coupled to two sticks and throttles for both. As previously stated, anything else one needs is "cheating". So the advent of mandated Bow Thrusters, and then Stern Thrusters seemed comical to us. Now, even a step beyond that is the pod with its computer language control, and hyper driven to having the vessel hold station by itself.

But we are not complete regressive idiots. We try the new technology, see why it is bringing more people to boating by easing their fears, then work to make sure they can still get to the dock safely if and when the computers fail.

Bottom line is, some bailing wire and duct tape will no longer encorage the new electronic common rails to life, so what does it matter? If a docking system fails in the fairway, at least you may be close enough to through a line and have a dock friend reel you in.

Skill generates pride and good captains are proud of their abilities. Taking the easy way (thrusters, joysticks, etc.) lessens your ability to become skilled. That skill enables us to handle situations when the s--- hits the fan. Granted those toys will bring more people into buying bigger boats, but it will also lead them into buying boats they're not qualified to run. Then when the s--- hits people are going to get hurt and property is going to get damaged. Where I once prided myself on being able to get any motor to at least get me home (I'm a shade tree mechanic at best), now many breakdowns result in a call for a tow because there's no way to jimmy rig most of the modern equipment. At least though I know enough how to set my vessel in the wind or current to get pushed in or at least buy extra time. The guy who should be in a 30 footer at most, but is now able to dock a 60 because of gadgets can't do anything but throw up his hands. That said though, there is no stopping progress.
All boaters should ask themselves this: Can I plot a course on a paper chart and do I understand all the symbols on a chart. If not, forget the toys, buy an 18 footer and learn what you're doing. Shut the plotter and navigate by compass and dead reckoning. Learn to dock using just your mains. Once this is mastered, then play with the toys. You'll gain pride and better still, the life you save may be your own.

Well said mate.

I agree with this. I also agree that there are a lot of owner/operators running 60 footers because of the gadgets that have NO business behind the helm of a 60' and the damage it is capable of causing.

Experienced Captain's also feel that "Keep It Simple Stupid" is the best way and the more electronical crap, the more your going to have a chance to have something fail. I can say this, I have never once, not had, an old Detroit Diesel not get me home.

My concern goes beyond pride or whatever it s about being able to handlenthe boat on that day when something happens and i am left with just the gears

Like many of the pro here i spent quite a bit of time on the water and have the luxury of keeping my skills sharp. But for an owner - operator, which i once was ( I guess I still am) the problem is that you don't practice enough sonic you rely on the joystick you will loose your skills ans the day when (not if) something fails you are left dealing with it with minimal training

I always impress on my students the need to practice, practice, practice. I tell them, if nothing else, when you pull out of a slip do a 360 then go on your way. I show them what their boat will do and explain that I'm not smart; I'm not tallented; I just do it alot. And yet.....

Most troubling thread I have seen

This computerfobia has to stop, please and I find this thread disturbing.
There is not one internal combustion diesel engine available from any manufacturer I know of today that can meet emission standards for 2011 without the help of computer controlled injection (at 300 HP plus anyway). That's the way it is going forward, period, in my opinion.
I sure hope you do not think of hydraulic steering as reliable. I have lost steering many more times with that system than I have lost any electronic version, but it can and will happen, no doubt.

We need to help others enter and enjoy boating. Every boater needs to develop their skills to become both knowledgable and safe boaters. Encourage development of these skills.

Thrusters can involve many problematic issues and maintenance concerns, plus the weight of the thruster and batteries or hydraulic gear, tank and fluids. POD drives may have potential issues as well and if one has experience to talk about it, fine.
Think a bit about what you say to less experienced boaters that enter the forums. Try to embrace them and not chase them away please. Understand the changes in this industry, even though you may not agree entirely.
I do not mean to offend anyone, but I want this industry back on its feet. Thanks for understanding.

What I like best about the new technologies is the fuel savings and enhanced maneuvering abilities. But it's a two-edged sword. Those same features attract people to get much larger boats than they're qualified to handle and encourages them to not learn the basics. So when things go wrong or manual they're not equiped to handle it. If that scares a 1st time boater out of buying a 60 footer that's a good thing. I'm not a salesman.

norudder... good point to some extent. nothing is 100% reliable but most of the time hydraulic steering and cable controls will give you warnings before failure.

a control cable doens't snap without warning (getting stiff, binding, etc...), even when something gets loose in the control head (even though most critical linkage have safety pins/wire) you can usually feel it coming.

Same with hydraulics. sure a hose can burst but most of the time problems come from slow leaks. some folks dont' check their reservoir levels and air pressure during their preflight... and even when a slow leak gets to critical level, your wheel will start feeling different giving you time to center the rudders and come home.

I agree that pods are probably preferable to thrusters though.

As nycap suggested, or rather stated in a very new yorkish way , is that docking and close quarter handling is only part of running a boat, especially a larger one. Making it that easy to dock a 60 footer does help the new boat owner when it comes to anchoring or navigating. Ever been dragged on by some clueless guy in a failry large boat because he couldn't set his anchor on a calm day? I have...

so while it's nice to use those systems to get more people on board larger boats, it doesn't mean they are ready to safely operate them.

As well as the warnings you get from hydrolic & mechanical systems Pascal points out, there is also the fact that you can usually fix or at least jimmy rig them. When a "brain" goes you're done. On one IPS boat I work with the owner got a warning ""Caution! Check Steering Wheel!" ". What the heck can you do with that besides worry.