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Issues with Detroit 6-71Ti engine

Discussion in 'Viking Yacht' started by noxbisi, Dec 28, 2010.

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  1. noxbisi

    noxbisi New Member

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    I would be grateful for any thoughts on an issue i am having with my port engine on my Viking 44 aft cabin. Some background so you can better understand why i am seeking advice here. I live and work in Papua New Guinea and live aboard my boat. one of the major issues here is the total lack of competent tradespeople let alone anyone who understands detroit engines. i was cruising over christmas and i noticed that the port engine was losing rpm when running on the syncroniser but after i turned off the sync it ran ok on its individual throttle. about 20 nm from home the port engie began to lose rpm again and continued to do so and to blow a lot of black smoke. i shut it down and ran on the starboard checked oil levels (no oil loss) then waited another half hour, checked again still no reduction in oil) got back to the marina to a gale blowing and tried to re start the port engine to allow me to get back into the berth but it continued to drop rpm and i noticed oil or black scum in the wake. managed to man haul the boat into the berth but now i am stupmed to understand what happened. i wondered if anyone on this site could offer me an opition as to what could be the problem. the boat seems to get a thick coating of exhaust soot and i was not sure if that could be a symptom. i may have to fly a detroit mechanic from australia to look at it but would be glad to have a thought as to what could be the problem. any advice or opinions would be gratefully received.
  2. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    It sounds like the turbo may be TU. Take off the air filter and look at the inducer, look for rubbing on the impeller tips and feel if it turns freely or has a great deal of slop and is rough to turn.

    Black smoke, soot, and oily exhaust is usually the result of unburned fuel. It is unburned because the turbo isn't providing enough air to burn it completely, or the engine is overfueling, which in this case I don't believe that to be the reason.
  3. noxbisi

    noxbisi New Member

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    Thanks Marmot, the engine has walker airseps on it, i will take the filter off tonight and have a look at the turbo. Many thanks for your response i very much appreciate your taking the time to give me your thoughts.
  4. noxbisi

    noxbisi New Member

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    Just some additional information. I went to the boat at lunchtime and started the port engine and it started and idled ok, i advanced the trottle to about 1500 rpm (maximum rpm is 2500 with 2200 recommended cruising) and after shutdown checked the rear and found quite a lot of soot floating on the water. it was dry and floating and for the short period of time that i ran the engine it was quite a lot. on my recent trip i had to run the engines at about 1400 rpm or about 11kts to save fuel as there was no refueling available and i wondered if this could have caused the problem. grateful again for any views.
  5. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    What you just described about the engine starting and running normally is in line with a turbo problem. The engine doesn't need much fuel and has all the air it needs to run unloaded. The soot was produced during your last bad experience and just broke loose and got blown out.

    See if you can run it up to full rated "high idle" rpm out of gear. I suspect you can with no problems or smoking.
  6. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Also make sure those air-seps are clean. A tiny exhaust leak can clog the filters which will result in heavy black smoke and loss of power.
  7. noxbisi

    noxbisi New Member

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    Thanks again Marmot if i run the engine to the higher rpm, what should i look for and how can i determine if it is the turbo that caused the problem. i tried to have a look into the airsep at lunchtime but i didnt have much time. i guess what i need to do is to establish to as reasonable point as possible, what may be wrong and to try to source both the parts and labour to rectify it. i wondered if the problem may have been due to low rpm over a long period which caused the drop in rpm during the journey.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    In Addition to checking the turbo's. An easy way would be to hook up a mechanical boost gauge and see what readings your getting at various rpms. Long slow speeds could cause the turbo to get cruded up and such.

    Also, check and change both the primary and secondary fuel filters. They too can cause a lack of engine rpm and black smoke.

    The air filter is another source, aside from them being dirty, I have seen K+N's with a lot of hours on them that would close up at high rpm's,.
  9. noxbisi

    noxbisi New Member

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    thanks jhall, i recently put brand new air filters on the airseps and oiled them so i think they are ok. i will check again later. than you very much for your feedback
  10. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Doesn't matter if they are new. An exhaust leak near the turbo can clog the filter in a matter of hours. Remember you are either getting too much fuel or not enough air into the engine. Specifically you have too much fuel for the available air. You should be able to see the intake side of the turbo with the airsep off. Make sure it turns freely and isn't clogged up with soot or crud.
    Now check the engine in neutral. It should turn up about 2650 rpm with WOT. Verify with a digital tach.
    Next step is a boost gauge. You should find fittings to check the boost before and after the intercooler. Boost is dependent on load. In neutral even at 2500 rpm there is minimal boost. Boost needs to be checked under load. Suggest 3 persons to run the boat. Operator, mechanic and go-between. Boost readings between the two engines should be very close when they are working correctly. J&T 671TI 450hp max boost should be 30 psi. I doubt you'll get that but that's the range you need to allow for on your gauges.

    Does your engine have crankcase drain check valves? If these stick open the boost will be lower. Usually not enough to cause the problems you are having but still should be checked.
  11. noxbisi

    noxbisi New Member

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    Thanks Jhall,you were right! I checked the air filters and found that the filter on the troublesome engine had collapsed after being clogged up, it was new one month ago so i definitely have an exhaust leak from somewhere. I am not sure how to check for a leak but clearly it has to be fixed because replacement filters have to be sourced from the US and it took almost a month to get these ones. I am really grateful to all who responded to my post, I am relatively new to big boats and in this country it is very isolated and when a problem arises, you are on your own. it is really great to see a forum with so many people who are generous with their time and thoughts.
  12. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Well done Mr. Hall!
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If it is a K+N type filter it can be cleaned and re-used, but may collapse again if it has collapsed once.

    Look for black soot at any of the exhaust connections, specifically check in front of and behind the turbo. While the engine is running you can take a folded white paper towel and move it near various issues and see if you're getting soot on it.
  14. noxbisi

    noxbisi New Member

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    Thanks CaptJ, i will try the paper towell tonight and see if i can locate the source of the leak. the air filter has completely collapsed and my experience with them before has been that its a major effort to get them back in shape for continued use. many thanks for your and other member's wise advice.
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Another way is to have someone next to the engine when it starts and looking for a tell tale puff of smoke.
  16. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Glad to hear you found the problem. Hopefully the fix won't be too expensive. Does it look like the engine ingested a lot of soot? Was the turbo sooted up? If so you may need to clean the intercooler also. At the very least I would do an oil change on that engine once the problem is corrected.
  17. noxbisi

    noxbisi New Member

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    thanks Mr Hall,
    yes the turbo is very sooted up and I have already picked up one 20ltr drum of oil (even finding enough of the right oil here is difficult) to change the oil. is cleaning the intercooler something that i can do myself? I always try to learn about things because here you cant depend on anyone else so is there a site or how to do guide on cleaning them? Please excuse my ignorance in many things mechanical, my career has been mostly law enforcement and for the past 14 years in developing countries on poverty reduction projects so i havent had so many opportunities to get my hands on engines. This website offers me a great deal of support and for that i am grateful. my next challenge is to clean the intercooler and turbo, locate the exhaust leak, change the oil and filters and then hopefully not crash the boat into the nearest reef when i finally get it back into top condition. :)
  18. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Do you know who did the marinization on your engines? Johnson & Towers, Covington. Stewart & Stevenson, etc. I have the Johnson & towers engines and the intercooler is pretty complicated.

    Sent PM also.
  19. CaptTom

    CaptTom Senior Member

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    Noxbisi,
    You have just learned the real value of YF. You can be half-a-world away with a problem, but can reach out to the YF members for help. These guys posted a lot of good information on this thread and I'm glad to see it helped you, and potentially someone else with the same situation.
    I'll add my 2-cents in about the turbo though. If you ever suspect a bad turbo, one that is tight, wobbly, seals disintegrating, leaking, etc, you don't want to run up the throttle. Exploding turbos can introduce metal fragments into the intake channels, busitng valves and pistons.