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Is it just me...

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by clnewman, Jan 19, 2007.

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  1. clnewman, Jan 19, 2007
    #1
    clnewman

    clnewman New Member

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    ... or do most of the reviews on this site look as if they just came off a Yacht World advertisement by the listing broker?

    This is not meant to knock the reviewers, so please don't take it that way. You provide lots of information in an easy to digest format, along with some excellent photos.

    However, there are 2 things I find missing:

    1. Where's the review of how the vessel handles at sea? A dockside review of equipment/amenities tells me nothing of what I might expect out in blue water. Since most potential buyers don't get a feel for a vessel's handling qualities until the sea trial, I'm sure any advance information would be welcomed with open arms.

    2. What's the asking price of the vessel as shown in the review? This information helps when looking at similar vessels, and trying to get a feel for price vs. performance.

    That's it... am off my soapbox now. I'm a newbie here, and hope I've not stepped on anybody's toes or crossed a line. I like what I've seen here, and hope to remain an active participant for some time.

    Chuck
  2. Loren Schweizer, Jan 19, 2007
    #2
    Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    It's just you, Chuck

    All the yachts reviewed in these forums handle extremely well...for their intended purpose. Different purposes, different handling characteristics.

    As for price, virtually all of these multimillion-dollar/euro yachts are custom-built, i.e., they all vary substantially depending on how that particular boat was built. There is no generic "price".

    Example: want full ABS certification for that $3.5 Expedition vessel? Pony up an additional $300K. Oh, and it's still constructed much the same as her non-ABS sistership.
  3. AMG, Jan 19, 2007
    #3
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Maybe you have, but not mine since I am not writing reviews here...:)

    I have though an understanding to why the reviews look like ads, simply because people have so different opinions on what they see and like in a yacht. Should I write my personal opinion, almost no yachts would pass..:D

    This goes for both exterior and interior design as well as general arrangements, where I have developed my view on what is good and no good.

    When it comes to handling and seakeeping, well, a lot depends on the captain. You can experience a boat completely different depending on who is running it!

    And finally, price is always an interesting information but also here is a problem. If a certain one-off yacht have been negotiated to a good price, or have a cheaper interior and equipment, you will not know what the next will cost or what it is worth really?

    So look at the reviews as a good information on what is there and how a particular client have choosen his yachts plan and interior design and try to figure out if you like it or not and how you should have done it. I have at least never read a magazine review on a new big yacht where they point out what they don´t like...
  4. clnewman, Jan 19, 2007
    #4
    clnewman

    clnewman New Member

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    Clearly, Loren misunderstood me.

    First, there's no way one person can know how well any of the reviewed yachts performs unless they've been out on a sea trial on each and every one. If one always takes the builder's/broker's word, then I've a bridge for sale that one might want to buy :p To make a blanket statement that all reviewed vessels handle flawlessly (under any circumstances) is ludicrous. If you've not taken a boat to sea, you're not in a position to give any assessment on it's handling/seaworthiness.

    The same goes for the price. All I asked for was a listing of the price of the vessel "as shown in the review". Of course variations in design/build will result in different costs. All I wanted was a benchmark to work from, which I don't think is too much to ask.

    That said, I want apologize to the reviewers, as I didn't mean to offend them. However, as a consumer, and as an avid reader of the reviews, I would like just a little more. A review (IMHO) should go past the interior decor, but also get to the meat (i,.e., instrumentation [ease of access/legibility], power plant [fuel economy?], ride [does it hobby-horse in medium-heavy seas, or is it a smooth ride? How does it handle with seas on the beam?]), to name but a few.

    I guess maybe I just want too much. But, for $2+ million of my hard-earned dollars for the boat of my dreams (and my future retirement home), I don't think so.
  5. yachtbrokerguy, Jan 19, 2007
    #5
    yachtbrokerguy

    yachtbrokerguy Guest

    It would be really nice to have reports of actual sea trials, but it still would be hard to make comparisons as there are so many variables. In my 11 years of boat sales and after having a captains license for 33 years I have been out in hundreds of different boats and yachts. However if you compare my hundreds with the numbers of different yachts out there, I have barely scratched the surface. Same with most reviewers.
    Then you have to consider if the reviewers actually did get out on the ocean, they would experience sea conditions for a few hours of that day only, not much to go on. Not many captains would go out on a rough day and get their yachts all salty just for a reviewer.
    I often tell my clients to walk the docks, find owners or crew and ask them what they like and dislike. This takes time and effort, but less time and effort than earning 2 million dollars, and usually is a lot more fun.
    Tucker Fallon
  6. GrahamF, Jan 20, 2007
    #6
    GrahamF

    GrahamF Senior Member

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    I don’t know if my answer will fit this thread, but here is my suggestion. If i was a person looking for a boat i would post a thread and say how much i have to spend and then ask advice from all the professionals on YF. I am sure you will find that you will get a lot of response from Captains and other professionals on what boat to choose. It all depends on what kind of boat you are looking for Aluminium, Steel, or Fibreglass. You will get advice on stability, instrumentation, seaworthiness etc. Just an example if there was somebody on the forum that wants to spend between 4 and 5 Million Euros and they want a pocket size displacement boat, then I would advise him on my experience I had with Moonen Yachts as I went through the build and I spent a season on her. This is a custom boat so we could change what ever we wanted. On the instrumentation we got the best for what the boats was going to be used for. For stability it is a great boat, we were in Force 6 and I never had to worry about her stability or the safety of the owners or crew as she handled the conditions very well. I am just one of many that will be able to give advice to anybody that wants to buy a boat.
  7. AMG, Jan 20, 2007
    #7
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    What Graham is saying is very close to reality!

    I have also been building at Moonen and used a Moonen yacht for several years. One YachtForum member asked me for advise offline and it turned out he later ordered a Moonen! (I hope he will be happy with it...;) )
  8. Loren Schweizer, Jan 20, 2007
    #8
    Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Chuck:
    Please reread my post. In doing so, you will note that no mention was made of " all reviewed vessels handle flawlessly". With a lot more time spent, you will eventually come to the conclusion that there are no "dogs" out there, i.e., they all acquit themselves pretty well. For their intended use.

    And, as pointed out by others here, the degree to which they perform is quite subjective--- not only a seatrial on each and every one, as you mention, is sufficient. A deliver skipper who has run a particular vessel up and down the coast is most likely to tell you about all the "warts" he noticed.

    What you're asking for, Chuck, will require you to have actual conversations with (gasp!) brokers and builders and captains and others who will gladly share their knowledge with you, particularly if attitude is left at home.