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How Do You Get It Done?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by NYCAP123, Apr 30, 2008.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    People today want to buy a boat, hop on board and go, treating it as they would a car. Besides "Stay off the water" what advice do you have?
    Here's the scenario: Their boat is in the 20 to 70 ft range. They don't have a captain or crew and don't want to spend their off time with a wrench in their hands. The yard takes care of winterizing & spring commissioning and fixes what breaks. They can hire boat washers & waxers. What else needs to be done and how do they find someone to do it.
    The reason I pose this question is that I recently boarded a 50 footer and found the engines totally rusted, the er & laz filthy, seacocks frozen and a couple of inches of oily water in the bilge. That was only the beginning (rusted stanchions, mildew, etc.). I thought the boat was about 10 years old and was amazed to find it was only two. Of course the living areas were clean.
    Short of handing the yard a blank check and saying keep it pristine (which we all know still wouldn't do it) :) what do you recommend.
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Buy a new one every year!
  3. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    I once recommended a medium caliber handgun, and shooting one's toes off one by one. Less painful, less costly, and less recovery time than owning a boat.
  4. Castlerock

    Castlerock Senior Member

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    Join one of those Time Share Yacht Clubs. Then you just show up at a location and drive the boat away and bring it back dirty and walk away.
  5. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Hey, that's pretty good!

    I have had decent success, over the years, with putting absentee owners with 'caretaker' captains who do a weekly service: exercise the machinery & systems and report on what needs fixing. This takes all of an hour.
    Interestingly, it is sometimes the owners who take the, um, frugal route and the ensuing neglect is their own fault.
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I had a feeling this topic could provoke some thoughtful (and some humerous) response. Seafarer, I like the way you think. Along the lines of Loren's suggestion I manage a couple of yachts. For a monthly stipend I do what an owner is normally responsible to do including act as laison with the yard, clean the bilge, tighten the boat, etc.

    The professionals among us know what happens to a neglected boat, and what's involved in just maintaining it. How about the owners? What has your experience been, and how did you deal with it? What could be done to bring the reality of boating closer to the dream? Is it worth the cost to just trade in every year or two or are there services you'd like to see made available?
  7. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    Our family boat was owned for 30+ years, a 1955. Wood hull, fiberglassed. The best thing that could be done was use it frequently, and we did. All fluids and systems were checked at least weekly and the boat was exercised at least every weekend (if nothing more than running from Mystic, CT to Block Island, RI). The yard typically had all week to do any work that we noted; they didn't have to chase down gremlins or hope that the owner would figure them out. The boat moved often enough that the bottom and all underwater moving parts were fairly clean, so if and when we got hauled underwater issues were a lot easier to find and repair.

    One of the best things that can be done is to have the kids in the family take an interest, and have the little bilge rats cleaning every nook and cranny the way we did.

    It needs to be impressed upon new owners that a boat is not a car or an appliance. You can't just hit the key and go, and take it in to the dealer every 5,000 miles. You can't just leave it docked and throw a sheet over the couch then come back next spring to hop in and go. If people want an expensive car, they should buy an expensive car. If people want a cottage, they should buy a cottage. If they want an RV, they should buy an RV.

    Some new owners should even have it drummed into their heads that boats don't have brakes, either. :rolleyes: I'm sure we've all seen some really bonehead moves at gas docks through the years!
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    At this time of year boats are getting launched and a lot of new boaters are hitting the water. This forum has a great opportunity to educate.
    A lot of folks who get into boats don't figure hiring people like us into their budget. Seafarer you touched some great notes, especially getting the kids into the bilge. Although dad may not want to get dirty, kids love being given responsibilities and showing off their mechanical abilities. :)
  9. PropBet

    PropBet Senior Member

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    Is Everything!
    Everyone has to learn at some point.

    And they have to learn lessons that can not be taught by someone else, can not be taught through reading, but by yourself through trial, error and the expense of failure. (emphasis on the expense / define failure as you wish) This typically means you destroy the first few boats you own.

    I've always said, one of the happiest days of my life: The day we bought our 5th (fifth) boat.
  10. lwrandall

    lwrandall senior member

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    I know most major boating areas have "Yacht Management" companies. These companies will not only wash and wax but do interior cleaning, engine and systems check and even refuel if wanted. This will help the boat remain "ship shape." The companies in Maryland will do this service for most any boat over 30' for a seasonal package price. This might allow those technically challenged owners to keep their boat looking and operating good.
  11. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    For nearly 50 years, Monaco Boat Service have done just that. I used to take a walk in the morning and watch the guys opening up all the boat covers of all the wooden Rivas, starting up the engines and checking them so the owner could go out on just a short notice. Some boats are also stored on racks in the rock and you just call and tell them when you want to use it. So, for anyone prepared to pay for a perfect maintained boat, there are people prepared to do the job. Have a look at all the Rivas, nice intro ;) http://www.riva-mbs.net/index.html
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That Monaco Boat Service et el sounds like a great idea, but up here you can barely find a marine mechanic who can make a living year-round. I usually suggest people ask (pay) their dockmasters or dockhands to take care of things. Of course you have to be specific as to what you have them do. It has to be worthwhile to them and still fit your budget. And of course these people probably don't have a lot of experience maintaining boats. Any suggestions on what to have them do, how often or how much to pay them?
    P.S. Propbet,
    You've got a real nice dad. ;)
  13. PeterSmall

    PeterSmall New Member

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    Although it may be outside the budget of the smaller boats in your range, we provide a complete scheduled maintenance system that can be scaled down to suit smaller craft.

    Essentially we visit the yacht, photograph and catalogue every item of equipment that requires regular servicing and then produce a manual (both paper based and electronic) which details not only what has to be done and when, but also shows you exactly how to do it.

    If the owner is not on board then this is something that can be passed on to the company/person responsible for the maintenance and as there are step by step instructions on how to perform the tasks accompanied by photographs of the actual equipment then it should be an easy task for them to complete.

    As simple report could be developed to send to the owner detailing the work done each month. The system covers ALL equipment on board, Mechanical, Electrical, Deck and Safety.
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Peter,
    Lauderdale. The yachting capital. There are certain centers where everything is available, but there are 10,000 others where there are pretty decent boats, but limited reliable resources to care for them. A lot of owners in these areas leave their boats to rot because they don't have the time, ambition or ability. They put their boats into the hands of the yard, but we know what they take care of and what they don't. They need to find someone, instruct them and follow up without blowing their entire budget. Suggestions?
  15. PeterSmall

    PeterSmall New Member

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    Agreed that it is probably a bit simpler here in Lauderdale, but the theory still works.

    If a detailed, yet simple to follow, set of instructions are created, preferably with photographs to show grease points, valves to be exercised etc. are created then it boils down to finding someone who is able and willing to follow these instructions on a regular basis.

    However, I suspect that is where the root of the problem is, finding someone reliable and at a cost where the owner can see that the outlay will reap it's rewards in terms of less money to be spent in equipment that has not been maintained.

    Unfortunately it is far too common that boat owners let the regular maintenance and upkeep of their vessel slip, particularly in the size range that you mentioned in your initial post.

    Even here, you don't have to look too hard to find the distressing site of boats that appear to have passed the point of no return, particularly those in the 20 - 40' range.
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Bingo Peter,
    I think you hit on the answer I was looking for. When I work with a new owner I go through the boat stem to stern as hopefully the dealer does also. I go over normal maintenance proceedures that the owner has to take care of, but I know it usually falls on deaf ears.
    I'm now going to suggest to the dealers or the owners that they put together or hire someone to put together a follow the numbers book with pictures for the maintenance of their boat that anyone can follow and suggest they hire a kid for generally about one (1) hour a week to do things like wipe down the bilge, CRC metal parts, check fluids, etc.
  17. PeterSmall

    PeterSmall New Member

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    We are currently working with a couple of yacht builders doing exactly that and talking to more to try to get them to buy into the concept. When a new boat is finished, we go on board and catalogue every item that needs regular maintenance, including mechanical, electrical, deck and safety equipment and put together a schedule with detailed, but easy to follow, instructions and photographs of the actual equipment on board.

    However, this is mainly for boats over 60' (the majority using our system are in the 100' - 150' range), I suspect the cost could be prohibitive for smaller craft, although our system could be easily scaled down it still needs someone to go through all the equipment and produce the plan. However, there is no reason why we couldn't do a generic one for the smaller standard production boats and then effectively license it to them....food for thought.
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    One of the boats I manage is a Viking Sport Cruiser (Princess). I must say she got one of the best manuals I've run into, but it's geared for me (not an engineer, but a fairly experienced captain). It's designed so we can troubleshoot problems, perform emergency repairs and more than just basic maintenance.
    I'm thinking a 5 or 10 page Basic Boat Maintenance For Dummies with labeled photos of relevant areas of the individual boat that an owner can go over with his son or a dockhand in 5 minutes to explain the job. Hmmmmm.:cool:
  19. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    I would submit that the yacht management team is the best way to go. I think that all the manuals and photos in the world will not encourage an owner to check engineroom stuff if he is just not inclined to do it.

    I am the type of yacht owner who, on a regular basis, hires a mechanic to come aboard and check fluid levels in the engines and gen. They were aboard today in fact. I'm pleased to report that all was fine. For me, it makes sense to do this as I am not terribly mechanical. To have a pair of trained eyes in the engineroom on my boat, taking a general look around, tends to help me head off problems before they occur. While they are in there, I have them look at the steering fluid and pressure, and pick up on the bilge pump float switches to test each one.

    I will happily do my own weekly wash job, but the mechanicals aboard my boat are left to the mechanics.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Sea Eric,
    You're absolutely right that some people just can't be saved from themselves. I'm thinking though about the guy who understands his investment, but just doesn't fully understand the consequences of failing to maintain his equipment.
    What you hire that mechanic to do could be done by someone's 10 year old. Of course I'd rather have a mechanic checking my vessel, but if I won't or don't have someone for whatever reason ($125 per hour labor rate) that 10 year old can make sure my seacocks move, my oil level is right, my hoses aren't leaking and my belts aren't broken if it's explained to him or her in a way a 10 year old understands. They can tell you if they find an oil spot on the pad beneath your engine, and can spray some CRC if they know what to lubricate. The'll be thrilled to take on "grown-up" responsibility, and who knows what you'll create. Your boat may keep floating and the kid may learn there's a world beyond gameboy and Hannah Montana.
    P.S. Before the lawyers start talking about child labor laws I'm talking about your kid or your neighbors or the dockhand. An enginroom check takes 5 minutes.