Help me choose between Nordhavn and Selene

They will work with you

Here's my personal opinion: buy Nordhavn. Selenes are prettier but have less freeboard from the pilothouse forward; not a good thing in terms of sea kindliness and headroom inside. Nordhavn systems are really heavy duty and have double or triple back-ups.

Assuming the purchase of a new yacht, Nordhavn is more than willing to work with you, installing pretty much anything you want, within reason. I presume this includes solar power & propane. The ideal setup is to have the Chinese do it while the boat is being built; that would be the "cleanest" installation, after Leichman (SP?) draws up the plans and forwards them to the builder.

Check into diesel-electric power, too. You'll be pleasantly surprised at the reduction in fuel consumption and noise. There will likely be a $$$ cost that's
a bit jolting initially, but will presumably pay for itself over time.

Just my .02; Opinions will vary.

FYI

Jeff Leishman is the Chief Designer for PAE as well as co-owner along with his brother, Jim, and Dan Streech, president, who recently joined Yacht Forums in response to a question comparing the new N120 and a boat from Ocean Alexander. His user name here is Dstreech.

Regarding diesel-electric…I don’t know that PAE is interested in going down that road again. They have tried it and it apparently did not go well.

Thank you very much for the complimentary comparisons to Selene. I see two points to clarify in this string:

• We can and happily will work with you on a package which minimizes generator run time. We have done it many times and have the talent and engineers on staff to develop the package with you. The elements of this approach involve the battery bank, inverters, propane cooking and diesel heating. Typically, dual voltage appliances are less efficient than running an AC appliance via an inverter. The arithmetic on solar panels is usually pretty disappointing so one tries to harvest as much battery charging in as short a time as possible when the generator is otherwise running for water heating, water making or oven use. Of course, once the air conditioning is needed, all of that goes out the window. The generator is a must for air conditioning and as a byproduct you have all of the AC and DC power that you need. Success with a “low impact” power efficient boat very much involves the attitude, life style and skills of the operator. There is no one single perfect package. A long conversation is needed to know which boat we are talking about, where it will be used and what your expectations are. There are trade-offs and compromises to be made- and of course, budget considerations.
• We have rejected DE (Diesel Electric) as a sensible and safe package for a Nordhavn and didn’t find any efficiency in the two systems that we installed.

Thanks!

Dan

Welcome to YachtForums, Dan.

I think you'll be impressed with the caliber of participants on this forum, most of them yacht owners, builders, and quality representatives of the marine industry.

Welcome aboard!

Judy

The trick is to use your main engine for as much of your needs as possible. Properly setup with a large alternator and battery banks a single main can reasonably supply everything but air conditioning (cooling) and cooking. A heat exchanger can be used for hot water and heat while underway. I've seen some yachts where they are powering everything off of the battery/inverters and putting in DC generators which auto-start when the demand calls for them. A lot of making it work is lifestyle choices. Do you need to make your coffee, dry your hair and microwave breakfast at the same time or not?

Having been involved in the listing and or sale of both Nordhavns and Selenes let me quote an owner of a 57 Selene. "the Selene is more civilized and refined, the Nordhavn is more industrial strength."
Both yachts are well designed and built, I suggest that you try to spend some time on both and to seriously think about how you feel about the layout and the features that you like. Think about what will be more important to you. I made a trip on one of these brands and found the engine room was big but the master stateroom could have been bigger.
Both builders will try to work with you on customizing for your needs, and there might be a one year or two year old boat on the market that might work for you also.

Visit Steve Dashew's site www.setsail.com and view his FPB 64. He has developped some pretty neat systems to accomplish what you want to do. BTW, he doesn't use Sub O refrigerators.

either or

I have worked on delivery off both the Selene and the Nord. They are different boats and require diffrent skills. Having delivered and PDI many in the PNW they are both a good boat and built well. The Walk around on the Selene is nice. Drill a hole out the hull of a Nord and you will know what you paid for. The new 120 should be interesting. Oh Stay away from DE options at this time. Let someone else spend the time and funds to get it right..This way you will be able to actual get out on the water. It is coming>>

Induction cook tops and convection microwaves can be run off your inverter, particularly when you are underway with the main engine alternators juicing the house batteries. With minor retrofitting, running the genset along with the main engine can be eliminated - AC needes not withstanding.

Comparisons are endless with +s and -s abounding. The 53 - 57 Selene suffers one major drawback my wife won't tolerate, washer dryer in the lazerette. The 57 Nordhavn has insufficient headroom. The 55 Nordhavn blows around too much at anchor due to immense height. Selene caprails are lackluster. Sooner or later the buyer must make some painful compromises and then start touting his/her new purchse as if it is the next best thing to sliced bread!

Regarding the minimizing the use of your generator: I agree with the use of high-end, efficient 120VAC appliances using state-of-the-art inverters. Also the use of induction cooking (vs. the trouble of humping LPG bottles which ALWAYS go empty while cooking) is a plus.
We have been doing a lot of R&D on a hybrid electrical system that could be suited to your needs. The idea is to use a large Li-Ion battery with sizeable AC chargers (for shore power) plus several DC variable speed diesel generators plus sizeable DC charger on your drive engine plus some solar and perhaps wind. Supply ALL your AC needs through large inverters.
This results in a world-class electrical system that can plug in any where in the world. The generators are always running at an efficient speed for the immediate needs. AND, best of all, you can sit on the hook for a day or more (depending on total electrical needs and the size of the battery) w/o running ANY internal combustion motor. Imagine anchoring in the midst of a bunch of sailboats, air conditioning running, satellite TV, and NO exhaust or noise!

Hey Reuben --

Congratulations on joining YF. You have a wealth of knowledge and experience to contribute - I look forward to reading your posts.

Judy

Hi..

I've only seen the 48 and smaller Selene over here. But there are a few 50plus Nordhavens.
The one thing I notice about them when I'm out sailing. Apart from the windage. IS when they in a seaway. Specially beam on. They roll.
And when they drop the pick near us. The first thing you see are the flopper booms swing out.
And I believe when the stabiliser calk it. You jump ship. (Only what I read in the Nordhavn forums.)
I spent too many yrs rolling round the North Sea in old round bilged Trawlers. (in the 50's) After a coupla days it ain't funny.
For comfort alone. I think I'd be looking at the Selene..

Quality wise. I wouldn't think you'd be disappointed with either.
But myself. with all the junk floating in the water. My last two yachts have been steel.
And my coming trawler the same .I'm waiting to see a Bering 65 in the flesh.
macka

Macka, it's time for me to sing my one-note song, to wit: Nordhavn makes a killer 68-footer, and you can easily equip it with one or more gyro stabilisers, plus flopper stoppers, and bring the rolling down to tolerable levels. Nordhavn's extra-thick hulls, while not bulletproof, are thicker and stronger than Selene's. Just sayin'.......

And no, I have no affiliation with Nordhavn. I just like 'em.

On another note and a very different idea. Would or could it be more fuel efficient to run a very small generator (2-4kw) that will handle just what an inverter would such as battery chargers, refrigerator and very basic electrical needs. Cooking could also be done totally with propane (which I don't like). Or the large generator could be run even less because you're not relying on it to charge batteries that have been severely discharged. When you figure in the cost of replacing large battery banks every 3-5 years for the inverter system, it might make sense to just run a tiny generator.

I ran a 76' Northern Marine and it was setup this way. It had an 8kw, for running very basic things on the boat if you weren't using a/c (battery chargers, refrigerator, maybe a microwave, lighting, etc...... It had diesel heat in addition to reverse cycle heat. It also had 2-20kw Onan's that you'd run 1 of if you were using air conditioning and a redundant backup......

Then again another thing is simply cost of inverter/battery bank/etc. I ran a 75' Hatteras MY and we anchored quite a bit, but I figured the generator usage of running a 20kw Onan 24 hours a day was only about a 1gph average if not less. Keep in mind, sometimes it was heavily loaded and most of the time 50% loaded at night (it was cool most of the time, the a/c's were on but mostly the compressors never cycled on,). On a smaller generator like this size yacht may have.....the fuel burn should be half that.

Personally, I would not want to live on a yacht if it meant living like a hermit on a 30' sailboat on anchor and you're afraid to have lights on and this and that and other creature comforts.....that's not living in my opinion.

Hi.

Those ADD ONS are all well and good. But. Talk to some people that have those boats and any of it calks when days or a week out to sea.
Different story then I'd think. (owners forum)

Lovely floating caravans I would think. But. In anybody with a seamans eyes. Just a "teeeeny bit" top heavy and windage susceptable.
You'd need a lot of underwater hull to counteract it.
Best in my eyes, as a seaboat. would be the 62..

I'm not knocking an obviously well built boat. But. Personally. I'd be looking at a lower above water hull with more inherent stability.
Personal choices all the way.
I love the old Northsea trawlers\Guard boats.
Apart from the Atlantic Seine fleet. They'd be the most seaworthy vessels on the water..
But I will admit. the pigs certainly rollllllll. in a beam ender.

Enjoy whatever you have.
I'm trying to decide t'ween a 65 Bering. or a refitted Norwegian type 60\70's Guard boat. there's a couple of nicely done ones on the market at the moment.
I'm not bothered about new. Prefer run in and sorted myself...
And an "Ice Class" vessel has 1\2in plate round the waterline. with mostly Slow revving cats. 353's Or Cummins 555 etc. etc.
I can get a full rebuild Cat 353 shipped from Canada for around $35k plus freight.

I think. for serious open water work. A refit older steel 80\95 fter.is a much better. safer seaboat. with 30ish ltr per hr economy. and comfort plus. in relation to any plastic type vessel.
Also when you finished with it. There's only 2 to 500k invested.

A lot of people are going that way now. Look at the converted serious trawlers. 80 to 130ft you see fitted out.
Fitted with Bow\stern thrusters. they easily managed with a 3 man crew.
and the first time you "ALmost" glide past a 40\60ft Plastic supertoy. bouncing all over the water in a 35\40 knotter. A week out at sea. You'll know why you went that way..
They alright for coastal work.

Personal preferences...

Regards
Macka

for the Generator setup check what Whisper Power does. The build a rather small genset with a combination of battery charger and self-sychronnizing Inverter that can run as a Booster for the genset, selve the AC requirements instead of the genset, start the genset automatically when more power is needed and or when the batteries need recharging. With that configuration you might get away with very little genset hours per day.

Aye, times have changed and with high efficency 12 volt fridge/freezer systems, LED lights and MPPT solar boosters, living on a sailboat for anchor can be quite comfortable as well as quiet with no stinking generator running all the time.

I burn about 60 amp hours (12 volts) a day on my sailboat with all creature comforts and get that back from the (150 watt) solar panels. On cloudy days I may have to run the engine for 30 minuttes to charge the batteries every other day but even that can be eliminated with a windmill.

Hi,

Stick with the good old D 353, the triple nickel (555) is the worst engine Cummins ever put a badge on.