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Guesses on Markets Returning to “Normal”

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by incoming, Jun 25, 2021.

  1. incoming

    incoming New Member

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    unfortunately the hat was a 96 and thus the previous generation. Apparently the hull and layout didn’t change much but I have yet to get on my target 97-03 55.

    So given that disclaimer, the hat engine room was cavernous, even with the monster 3412’s in there. It is literally stand up head room for me at 6’2”. The Viking ER felt way more cramped but it was also a mess which makes it feel smaller. But it certainly had a foot less headroom. Not sure if the engine room on the pre-97 gen hat 54/55 carried forward to the 97-03 but if so, it would be a big selling point for me.

    They felt similar in size but the hat had a 3rd head, which I think is kind of a waste of space. The master stateroom on the hat is much more spacious feeling with the angled bed. The lower bunk on the Viking seemed really skinny at the foot. Even my petite wife said she didn’t think she could sleep on it.

    The hat interior was super dated with Formica/pressed wood cabinets, some coral pink mixed in, etc.

    One thing the hat had that seemed unusual was fin stabilizers. Has anyone ever heard of one of those on a sportfish? Wonder how they work in that application.
  2. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Never seen a sportfish with stabilizer fins. Must have been used for cruising.
  3. LAM

    LAM New Member

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    Take a look at the 2003+ Viking 48 they can be found with 3 staterooms. Might be a bit above budget though.

    We recently bought a 2000 47 Viking in FL and brought back to the Chesapeake, only has 2 staterooms but can get a pull out for salon.

    The early 2000 Viking 50 is also a good option and has 3 staterooms and closer to budget.
  4. incoming

    incoming New Member

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    Wondering what folks think about enclosed bridge SF? There are a couple of Viking 58s on YW right now.

    Seems like windshield wipers in particular and lousy weather comfort in general are huge advantages, allowing us to stretch out the season even more than we do currently and make progress when moving the boat in crappy weather (which seems to happen frequently). It also provides an entire “bonus room” for living space. Could even see the kids having friends over and sleeping up there while the adults get the downstairs.

    Downside would seem to be isolation from fishing action (just open the back door?), maybe less visibility when docking, and, frankly, not being “outside” enjoying the environment when it’s nice. Kinda makes me think of the highlife commercial where the beer guy is in the skybox not understanding how anyone would want to watch a ballgame through glass. Also there’s the added weight - and whether any top heaviness impacts roll stability in addition to fuel burn and speed.

    seems like the general steer from SF aficionados is away from enclosed bridges, but wanted to understand that better since there seems to be a lot of upside
  5. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    I was thinking the same as you at one time, great for comfort, not so much for fishing. The ones fishing in the GOM catch their share of fish. Read a post here on YF the owner operator did not like being alone on the bridge when the weather was nice, everyone was outside on the deck. The solution is a lower pilothouse with an open bridge, but rare find in a sportfish. The 61 Mikelson Sportfisher is an interesting design as a comfortable cruising/sportfish and family fishing, checks all the boxes.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    They definitely have pluses and minuses. I do not like them for two primary reasons. First, I want a lower helm. Second, I want the option on the bridge of being open and fully enjoying the outdoors. They may be best with a paid captain you don't want to be with or something.

    Sportfishing boats definitely perform well and serve their purpose, just not for us.
  7. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    On my Donzi I custom made frames to put solid glass on the front of the bridge and wrapped around about 1/3 of the way back on each side. Then I have the typical soft enclosure around the rest and the back. When fishing I can roll up the soft enclosures and be part of the action. The glass takes 99% of the rain and weather. I have wipers and even put heat on the bridge. The soft enclosure is enough to keep heat in and make it comfortable for those fall or early spring cold days. And the settee in front of the console makes for a comfortable sleeping spot for someone.
    bayoubud likes this.
  8. CWV

    CWV Member

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    I have a nicely refit Bertram 50 with new cats just on the market. Great boat. F&S helped with the refits. Turn key.
  9. CaboFly

    CaboFly Member

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    Boat looks nice. Looking for something newer with C18's or MAN 1100's.
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  10. Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

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    I own a 43' Ocean and agree with OP as I keep tabs on many of the same boats. Prices are way up. I am amazed at what 40-50ft SF's are going for. A boat like a late 90's 50' Viking or a newer 48'. Ocean prices are way up as well as is everything else. Guy I bought my Ocean from back in 2015 moved up to a 2001 55' Viking. I searched them at the time to see what he paid and it was about $500k. I doubt you could buy that same boat for same price now. More like $700k and it's 6 years older.

    I also agree that supply in that range is a MAJOR problem. There are almost no smaller (under 50') SF's made anymore. Dropped off a cliff in 2008. Viking being a lone exception. Maybe Riviera, depending on your definition. Cabo, Ocean, Egg Harbor, Caviler, Post, all gone... Seems like that market has gone to big CC's. So the supply of boats is just getting older and smaller but not cheaper.

    But I'm not going to try to predict when/if prices will go down. Eventually, when there's a recession, prices may pull back but then again, that's not always when folks are in a position to buy.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    An enclosed bridge is REALLY nice if you're traveling a lot. Spending 8-12 hour days on the flybridge at cruise with a 3 sided enclosure sucks really. I've done it many times when it's 36F outside or raining etc......I don't know if it keeps people from hanging out on the bridge when fishing, you have the same ladder up from the aft deck. It's also nice to have A/C or heat......however, you are a little isolated when fishing.
  12. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Hi Judy,
    You have hit a point that is valid & also annoying. I have been searching for a well found Offshore 55, or Fleming 55 or a European brand that has caught my interest. Over the last months I have been literally ignored by US brokers, especially when it comes to the Fleming 55 & when dealing, or trying to deal with the major Fleming agents in the US. They have an attitude of protecting the boats listed with them so that they can onsell them to local clients & therefore get more associated work from them in the future as well get the same boat back in a few years to sell once more. Plus the good chance of selling that buyer another Fleming in the future. That's all quite understandable, until you consider that the Seller/Vendor never was given a potentially better offer from an Australian buyer. Recently the same occured with an Offshore 55 in California. I will not mention brokers names or the exact boat, but a number of clear requests for more information & my details were totally ignored even though I had responded on the day that the Offshore was first listed on Yachtworld. After numerous emails over a 4 week period, I finally was told that he "must have missed one of my emails" requesting more details & with questions. As expected, in that response I was also told the Offshore was put "Under Offer" 10 days ago! Yet, as you have written, the listing in YW is still unchanged. Frustrating!
    Luckily we have found & bought a great boat locally for the interim that should see us through to a more sensible time to buy the boat my wife & I want.
    Any Fleming 55 owner or Ofshore 54/55 please let me know!
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  13. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Nice to hear from you and big congrats! Enjoy your new yacht and let us know more.
    Kafue likes this.
  14. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Which is, if I may ask?
    You are making me curious because I can think of European boats that in some ways I would even prefer to the ones you mentioned (which I also like, anyway), but none that I would consider similar to them.
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  15. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    I was hoping no member would ask! Only because in this absolutely Manic Market, there are so few decent boats to choose from. The brand is Skagen. I have been watching them since their very first drawings & proposals were published in the early 2000's & find their design extremely attractive for our sort of boating. Plus, must add, I far prefer boat builders not based in Mainland China. Please note: nothing racist in stating that, because Taiwan is fine with me. It is the Communists & their politics & treatment of their own & the rest of the world that I am reluctant to support. Unfortuantely we all are in a situation where it is almost impossible not to buy from China Co. I would buy a Nordhavn if possible & still regret that China is country of origin! Fleming is fine as it's Taiwan! In any event, trying to avoid politics! Back to Skagen: they were seemingly on a winner with their 53/50 model, but then came the GFC & now they are out of business. Only a few were on the market until very recently & as I was making an offer, they were selling rapidly. Within weeks of my requests for more details & local surveyors in Croatia, getting shipping costs from Europe to Australia etc, the various boats were all sold, bar one which is at over market price.
  16. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Thanks Judy!
  17. incoming

    incoming New Member

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    Circling back - I ended up with a late 90’s 58 Viking enclosed bridge. Bigger than I wanted and a punch list that is still growing instead of shrinking but we’re enjoying it. Tons of room with everything we wanted. Price was ok given the market - got a whole lot of boat for the money. Did our first trip this weekend and the enclosed bridge was awfully nice. Could have a normal conversation underway at 20+ kts, no louder than driving down the interstate. Does feel a little disconnected and the visibility is taking some getting used to, especially for docking and congested close quarters, but I think a good compromise all in all. In the summer we can open the windows, sunroof, and back door and get a little more of the outdoors feel. And in the winter…short of icebergs in the bay I can’t think of anything that would keep us at the dock. Could be 40 degrees and raining and I’d be at the helm in a t-shirt.

    Good luck to anyone out there shopping. Many brokers are behaving poorly…leaving up listings that are long since sold, posting duplicates, using pics from another boat in a listing without any disclaimer…I could go on and on. Recommend having an agent representing you as a buyer with good relationships to get you on boats and help filter out the garbage. But you will still need to do a lot of legwork and you will almost certainly find far more dead ends and over priced absurdities than legitimate options. But there are options out there…

    Honestly, selling my 30 year old sportfish was quite enjoyable, shopping and buying was pretty miserable. How’s that for backwards?
    bayoubud likes this.
  18. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    After many years of exposure to many UV's my wife and I do not need to be bombarded by more UV 's. We have been discussing this for a number of years and decided the view from a enclosed flybridge is better all around than a lower PH. The only draw back for us is me leaving the helm when just the two of us are docking, a bow thruster will solve that for grabbing lines. We were anchored near a 58 ec viking at Dry Tortugas in 2000, it was impressive compared to our 45 viking sf. Always liked that 58 EC Viking, good pick. Agree with you on the selling and buying experience in today's market. If priced right and not sale pending there is something wrong with the boat! Enjoy your catch...