Fuel Cells for Yachts – Who will be first?

Is there any yacht using LNG(liquid natural Gas) since it must be kept at a minimum temperature of -117f but can be colder.there is a natural boil off to maintain that temperature .Many thing affect the amount of boil off, mostly container construction and insulation. but the few % of boil off can be used to heat water,cool the yacht acting like A/c,heat the yacht being used as a fuel and to run the gen sets and to cook meals.

The vast majority would be used to power the engines,no matter if they are turbines or diesel. many duel fuel engines are available or underdevelopment to use duel fuel,LNG or fuel oil.

Hydrogen Submarine

HDW Shipyard in Germany has already delivered a fuel cell powered submarine with a 2 mega watt propulsion system to the German Navy. I imagine that since HDW does work with Lurssen that is just a matter of time before we see a fuel cell powered megayacht with electric pod drives.

Not this again, -

Dear Mr. Peterson;

I can see that you are a well read man, clearly in touch with all the usual highly touted talking-points. The problem is that your sources (Al Gore?) are all dead wrong.

First, I would like to make you aware that, not just a few, but nearly Every serious inventor in the field of extreme energy development eventually gets a visit from Uncle Sam, or his close cousins in the 'Aowl-bidness.'

Take my friend Robert Fulton. He comes up with a flying car and first they say: "Sorry, no go pal." Then he gets the bright idea that you can rescue folks at sea from ANY small plane with the miraculous "Skyhook." ..."Bob! You know this is top-shelf military aparatus. We can't let you fly it." So, Bob flies his P51? into a raging California forest fire, and promptly rescues 7 out of 9 would be crispy critters from certain doom. (1971?) "Bad call, son!" - They paid him $4M cash to shut the *-up! I saw the deposit slip, framed in his study. They did make him a concession, by letting him show them how to do "virtual aperature radar imaging," but it was about 20 years before you read about its "invention" in PopularFiction.

The 'fuel-cell' is somewhat of a joke to the free-energy community, who recognize the absurdity in *storing* a dangerous replenishable commodity. This is best illustrated on a motorbike powered by water with electrolytes. As your power needs increase, a reactor of sorts is required to accelerate the Hydrogen production. And, while it burns at a tremendous temperature, it has been powering secondary systems on submarines for years. They merely had to call these 'nuclear-subs,' to get us to spend another $B in the R&D process. And, of course today they are off to build real Nukes all over Europe.

When I saw all this to-do over 'Ethanol,' I called my Dr. to get his opinion. Just like you, he had all the facts, and none of it true. I fired him right then and there! The same bunch is currently killing my sister and my aunt with 'chemo-therapy.' Lazemedinc.com could have cured the skin cancer, with a wand, in 15 minutes. Jane, (with throat cancer,) was immediately 'over-radiated.' Now, (round #3) she's almost dead. She wouldn't listen to my points about "Tiaga Tea" -which creates a state of remission in around 6 weeks. Now, we have one last recourse, which is to secretly put drops of "Probiotic Magnesium Oil" (loosely known here as concentrated 'ocean water,') in her food. Just 4-10 drops kills all the biological bad-guys in a matter of days. The bottom line is we can magically improve the auto-immune system, but we can't arrest Mother Nature.

Heating the earth with CO2 emissions? -Wrong again! Didn't we go over this in '86, when 'warming' was said to be reversable with simple rock-dust? The galaxy is currently passing through a section of the universe where the plasma-rays are 100 times higher in rads than a century ago, and aerosols won't stop it.

Your MAIN problem today is finding a high spot to park your boat, since very soon we will be experiencing: Earthquakes, Volcanos, Floods, and Forest Fires. The excess energy (heat) has caused all the solar-flares, and oddities on Saturn, etc. ...Also, there is an intimate danger from 'Planet-X,' but they won't say when. Either way, Nostradamas, et. all, have said this is the tipping point. ...Watch for "a Blood-red Moon," etc.

"OK, folks, Max is off his rocker!" -Nope, check the Pentagon's Ledgers for where the $4T was really spent. Ask yourself WHY you never heard one astronomer going public about UFO's? Why not one USAF Commander has described the $T. -Base in Antartica. It's a one-way voyage, that's why! Where do you think all these missing children are? Why do you suppose they are hell-bent to stratify the system in preparation for the "One World Government?" Truly, Iraq, Iran, and all these flatlands are inconsequential. Ditto all you lucky beach dwellers! -When these changes begin, (I'm told now it's within two years,) man will only survive at levels higher than 350ft above sea-level. With luck, you'll have a few days to run.

Well, you really made a shortlist of all our problems...

After the latest UN summary of the thousands of reports on global warming, the conclusion is that already poor countries will be worse off than the richer. Also, a country like Sweden would actually benefit from it in many ways!

Which leads me to believe that most countries will just use this knowledge to raise taxes, claiming they push the industry to find new energy sources. But politicians in general have a much shorter perspective...

The 350 ft altitude scares me though as my new house will be built just 35 feet over the beach...?

Dear MaxResolution

There's no doubt that the CO2 Emissions are heating up the world.
They're destroying the atmosphere and the sun-ray are heating up our planet.
all the ****ing oil industries are just thinking of their profit while thousands of peoples dying every year because of the heat.

just to say it: while some peoples think "oh great 20°C in january in NY Central" some other think: "how long will the northpole resist this sick weather?"

what do you think, whats better for the atmosphere? 100.000 Cars with CO2 emissions or 1.000.000 Cars without?

think about what will happen to your kids while you're cruising in a car that sucks more than 8Gallons on 60 miles. on these 60 miles you and the people next to you are destroying the world of our children.

i think most of the death in future won't be through murder, also in US.
they will be a cause of heat. and guess what? maybe you're the next one!

this weather (20°C in NY in january/ 10°C in northern Germany in january) isn't normal - this year is going to be one of the worst ever - hurricans destroying all the yachts in the southern regions and killing thousands of people maybe a president in the US who's bombing the next coutry because of oil.

i'm 20 years old and i hate these people meaning oil is to expensive or meaning "hey that earth warming isn't my mistake/problem"

i want a "normal" world in 40 years - not a destroyed one - choose a way of life but choose the right one, some less comfort but better knowledge of whar you're destroying.


Jannick Bruhns

This is one of those areas I’m a bit more familiar with than most. It's not surprising that brilliant work is hushed. We've all heard of this (too often) with emerging technologies that can have a profound impact on economies that may be threatened by the same. A classic example, as you pointed out, is the FDA and the AMA in this country have enormous control over substances that have proven beneficial (and legal in many countries), but could hurt the more accepted (read: profitable) forms of medicine.

A similar scenario that comes to mind is Preston Tucker and the automobile he created. It was so far ahead of its time that General Motors managed to keep him from bringing it to market. It would appear that GM was not alone in their efforts to bring about his demise... they are afterall, well connected with the powers that be.

The same holds true with emerging energy technologies and the influence that Big Oil has over the Department of Energy and other governing bodies with the power to take things mainstream, or store them away never to be seen again... until the time is monetarily correct.

MaxR… you sound like one of the few who’s had his Matrix glasses removed. Glad you joined YF.

i'm reading over Max's replie again and again, was it meant ironicly?

if yes: i couldn't understand it - else i got to tell: those are the people who're thinking G.W. Bush was elected into white house

My 2 cents. I don't believe that there is one solution. There are quite a few that together will work better in specific applications.

One article that made much sense to me:
http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

There are also some interesting developments in carbon nanotube capability.

Flexible solar panel output per square metre is increasing at a fair rate as well. AMG's NEO may be possible in a reasonable period of time.
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/16786-post106.html

Back to the (future) topic

Actually, I am delighted to entertain the idea of fuel-cells. And, as you can see, I'm prone to occasional silliness. Being creative, worldly, and generally content to marvel at all the wonderful things mankind has accomplished,- I am proud to join the ranks of an adventurous group of travelers, and treasure-hunters such as yourselves!

We are certainly all being subjected to more spin than our world need sustain. Wouldn't it be lovely if everyone just agreed to chill-out and get along?

My take on this recent, Media acceptance of the global warming issue, is that the first-world does indeed now have considerable leverage, as the 'powers at be' can easily profit from the so-called Oil shortage. (Notwithstanding; FORD Motors, who may be temporarily overstocked with Light Trucks and SUV's.)

Seriously, here is one device that does promise to replace your diesel engines, although it probably isn't practicle to build for anything shorter than say, 70m, or 200' LOA.:
http://rexresearch.com/kanarev/kanarev1.htm

And here's a general overview on the 'fuel cell': http://rexresearch.com/joecell/joecell1.htm

Now,... if I may go back to tending the jib?

My Two Cents

OK, I'll throw my hat into the ring on this one. First and foremost, I am going to agree with Carl's statement that change will not be forthcoming until it is monetarily advantageous for the men that sit in the ivory towers.

On a minor tangent, I know there is a lot of ill will otwards the U.S. throughout the world right now for various reasons. I think that it is justified overall to have a negative opinion about the U.S. as a country, but misguided to dislike are mal-judge Americans as individuals. Where am I going with this? It's actually central to the point I am trying to make in this post. Yes, we here in the U.S. have a democracy. We do "elect" our officials at the highest levels. I think, however, it would be a stretch to describe our democracy as representative. Is my voice, that of a constituent, going to be as loud/effective/heard as some special interest pumping a steady stream of cash into the coffers of the politicians? Anyone that says "yes" to this question is an idealistic fool.

So getting back on topic, what does this truth about the gov't in the U.S. have to do with the discussion? It's pretty simple really-- there is a multitude of alternatives to hydrocarbon based forms of propulsion. I agree with both Carl and Max that these amazing ideas are being repressed. It's all about money-- WHAT A SHAME. If a brilliant inventor were to actually take a competing technology to market, these fat cats that have been perverting the political process for sooooo long would stand to lose literally billions. And that's what it's all about. The rich striving to remain rich at the expense of what's fair, what's right, and what's prudent for everyone else. No wonder greed is considered a mortal sin in the Christian faiths.

And if I may, I would like to weigh in on what I believe would be the best solution. You might even call it a panacea. I'm sure some here are probably going to think I am a quack for even putting this forward, but here it goes-- MARIJUANA. Ok, sorry... I had to put that in there to get a rise .

I'm not actually talking about marijuana as most know it. Yes, I am referring to the genus cannibis, but not the species indica or sativa. Rather, I am referring to the third species, the one that was absolutely pivotal in America at so many different points in time-- ruderalis. Cannibis Ruderalis is also known as hemp for those here who are not aware. It isn't technically asexual, but pretty ****ed close. Rather than being bushy and producing flowers that contain the psycho-active tetra-hydro-cannibinol (THC) that get so many folks high, it is stringy and contains approx. 1% of the THC as indica or sativa strains. You would literally have to smoke ounces, if not pounds of the stuff to get a lift. SO what are the uses? In a historical context hemp has been used in America to make paper, rope, clothing, sails, parachutes-- the list just goes on and on (funny side note: when Bush 1 was shot down in WWII he skirted death with a parachute made of hemp-- yes, even one of our dullest presidents can call weed a life saver !).

I think hemp plays to both main topics being discussed in this thread. First, as far as an alternative fuel source is concerned, almost any biomass can be converted into methanol or ethanol, both of which combust more completely, resulting in higher octane levels and cleaner burn off (read less carbon emissions). It can also be processed into a charcoal-like substance through a process called pyrolysis and then used as a substitute for coal as an industrial feed stock. This has been done in America by a guy that most consider to be a pretty good business man in historical context. Maybe you've all heard of him-- Henry Ford?

OK, so what about this global warming stuff. Well, we all agree that using cleaner burning fuels will help to curb the current trends we are seeing, yes? If so, then it's easy to see that hemp could be a viable alternative, as it burns cleaner when converted into mathanol or ethanol. As I see it though, there's much more to it. Something I almost never hear anyone talk about in the mainstream media when the issue of global warming is raised is basic science. We have cycles in nature. Here, I am speaking of the respiratory cycle and how photosynthesis plays into it. In the process of photosynthesis a plant processes water and carbon dioxide via ATP (energy from the sun) to produce sugar for itself, and gives off oxygen as a bi-product. As I understand, the greatest source for this conversion of CO2 into O2 is actually found in our oceans in the form of red kelp and certain plankton. Of course, all plants contribute to this process, so is there any area on the earth that has seen an overall decline in biomass density? Can you say "where the hell did all the rainforests go?"?

OK, where am I going with this? Well, one might put forth the idea to plant all the land that was clear cut for timber with cannibis ruderalis. You wouldn't have to go and clear all the old trunks and root systems from the old growth forests as ruderalis has a minimal root system. The growth and harvest cycle for hemp is 3-4 months, resulting in plants that are anywhere from 5-15 feet tall. All the while, these plants would be lowering CO2 levels. Once harvested, they could be used to produce methanol/ethanol, or you could actually use the pulp with current technologies to create better plywood/mdf/osb than is currently in use as hemp is a stronger biomass fiber with a higher tensile strength than pine/doug fir.

I could go on much longer, but I won't. I will, however, like to congratulate and thank anyone who has taken the time to read this far.

I really do think that one of nature's greatest gifts is being grossly, heinously under-exploited. And it all comes back to my first tangent concerning special interests. So, who would lose if hemp were exploited to it's fullest? Probably just some small companies like Wyerhauser Int'l and International Paper. Oh yeah, I rememeber reading yesterday that Exxon/Mobil just set an all time record for annual profits-- 36+Billion. They probably would much rather throw a few million at the DOE and the right house and senate commitees to maintain the status quo that sees them getting rich as hell than spend billions reworking their entire infrastructure so they could make use of hemp. Oh well. Until we all find a way to rid ourselves of greed and truly look after one another as "my brother's keeper" then we are all pretty much screwed.

The issue is 'cooling,' not warming.

Funny you should mention it. Today, I can't find a station that is not discussing this 'Energy crisis.' Now, why wasn't anyone listening, back in 2000, when Hansen issued his "Dire Warning" -TV speech to the Computer Partners of the G8? And, again, in 2002, what was the point in the Pentagon's so-called, 'independent' study that Bush was so eager to ignore?

I can't help but drift back to the Aspen Institute Conference I attended in '91. How important it all was for the investment community to understand the implications of the "coming Oil shortage." ...We also learned that Oil is a renewable resource. The only problem then, was that the Russians were the only ones digging 9,000+ ft. to prove it!

I just heard the President of ASHRAE, going over his keynote points before the coming 'Builders Show,' in Orlando. Ostensibly, it was the AIA who were responsible for the 'Issues' questionaire you answered when filing your 2004 votes. 85% of those polled believed that "Global Warming" was the #1 issue facing our country. (I added a check-box for "Mental Health.") He points out that core samples from the poles reveal 6,k 12,k 20k, 60k and 200k earth cycles. What else did they find? Bones, paper, bilge-pumps, glass, money...?

Assume for a minute that we knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the ONLY path to a sustainable planet was to immediately replace ALL of the lawn grass with premium Hemp. Do you think for a minute that the Governments of the world would demand its immediate implementation?

I draw the line at 'clear-cutting' all Forests. Stopping this practice is wholly within the range of All Architects and Developers, but will anyone stand-up to the desires of Wal-Mart? Again, they would rather not buck the prevailing trend. After all, the issue is now 'warming,' not reversing the CO2- exchange process.

Can we please resume this conversation “after” we run out of reserves?
And no more crazy “Kyoto” talk either….
I’m off to trash the forest in my new 4x4 SUV.

P.S. brunick, this post=humour

I remebered that MTU has lauchned a sailingyacht with fuel cell in 2003. Here are two articles about fuel cells

Fuel cell powered sailingyacht
http://www.initiative-brennstoffzelle.de/en/ibz/live/nachrichten/detail/93.html

Fuel cell powered ships
http://www.initiative-brennstoffzelle.de/en/ibz/live/nachrichten/detail/87.html

i guess for MaxR is it proved that there's no global warming?

can somebody kick him into space so he get's tanned by the "plasma-rays" ?

i just don't understand what's he writing - he must be a CEO of big OIL-company - maybe exxon - .oO(thats why he's here, they got 40billion last year, he needs a yacht!) -

god, give us a chance and take Max with you ^^

PS: most of that what a wrote isn't meant as i said

Oh Jannick, where for art thou, verily?

Girl, you are miles ahead of me, so I won't attempt to correct your English. I've been watching this 'warming' trend since I learned about the ozone-hole in '89. I was impressed by this German Dr. who brought my attention to the CO2-loading issue, but especially because he was framing it with a critical eye on 'gardening' and 'nutrition'...

According to the records, (elaborately comparing soil horizons sampled throughout western Europe,) the way 'Dr. Weissengloomandoom' wanted to attack the 'warming' was by adding *glacial-till dust* to our topsoils, -worldwide. (Here go the Krauts again, thinking globally!)

Actually, I was in Brizzy at the time, receiving daily lectures about 'mining opportunities,' either from my 'Pom' girlfriend, or her ex-hubbie, 'Honest John', (or maybe it was 'Digger,' the drunk Sydney stock broker,) ever reminescing about how "life begins and ends in Adelade." ...Only one problem; "IT'S THE CENTER OF THE OZONE HOLE!"

...In my distress, I dug them a 'French-drain,' (almost 20m x .25,) and a few post-holes, but that's about as close to 'mining'as I would ever come.

Nowadays, if you listen to the astro-physicists, they believe that it's 'Gallactic,' so 'warming' is inevitable! Meanwhile, the 'God-squad' are saying, buy 'Armageddon supplies,' and the 'Neo-cons' are saying: "Hoarde everything, and stock Gold deep underground!"

Of course, many moons ago, a giant 'Tsunami' did hit Sydney, so they flock like geese to Hamilton Isle, to observe the 'Jap Starfish' knawing away at the 'Great Barrier Reef,' and contemplate the meaning of life itself. -C'mon, anyone can see that 'Greenland' is about to spill-out about a zillion tons of fresh 'Ice water,' reeking continental havoc and doom.

Me, I'm just afraid this will chill-off every eligible babe, from Kilkinney, to Baton Rouge. (Not to mention Copenhagen to Paris, and possibly up by you.)

Look at it this way. Do you really think tending some old rickety 'Arc,' full of chicken, and pigs, lions and zebras and sheep is the right gig for you? Really, I'm just exploring 'Mega-mega-mega Yachts'as a potential option, and what more is a poor 'Southern redneck' supposed to do?

so "girl", i don't think that i have to take me down by somebody who voted for G.W. Bush. people like you should have taken to guantanamo. you could learn a lot there.
i think you're one of the persons, who have voted for G.W.B. and you're one of the people who is until now thinking there are weapons of mass-destruction in irak and thats the reason why you americans where send there.

Max, you're a perfect example of a stupid man/women/something

when i would talk to you in german you wouldn't understand it - so i talk in broken english to you. it's easier, because i can't use so much bad word to think about you.

oh - i think, i will not read your hole post - you call us germans "krauts". well, i'm no nazi, the most nazis are in america, i'm just one of these "green" people.

Carl: is there a "ignore" button? i don't want to quit forums just because of somebody who thinks he knows everything after visiting the whitehouse homepage...


but i think it's easier to quit forums..

Hey guys! So many words, so little said. Especially about fuel cells, so lets go back to this topic!

BTW, I just read that the ice at Greenland is not melting any longer, at least it is now back to normal after a couple of years with more than normal melting. So who knows what is going on, really...?

Jannick,

You have completely misunderstood MaxR's dialect. He was actually giving you praise, but it was mixed with his ubiquitous way of looking at our twisted world. Trust me Jannick, he was not saying anything offensive, but rather... insightful and very entertaining. Wish I could write this well!

Let's get back to the thread subject...

Jannick, "I am so sorry!"

Please, Jannick accept my apologies. I was just using superfulous American 'slang' to be funny, and I hoped you would laugh, at my silliness, just like on TV.

My 'rant' was not intended to be read as a negative attitude towards you, please believe this! I love the Germans. I am part German, part English, and part Jewish. My hope, my prayer, is that, through our friendly chat we can make our world a lot happier, and more secure. And, since I DO NOT condone GWB's attack on the planet, I feel a special need to build bridges with honest, adventureous travelers like you!

All I want is your friendship. And, yes, I wish I did know some German, so I could could have deeper discussions with my dear friend Nico Haupt, who came to the States to learn English, and is now the hardest working, most mis-understood 9/11 researcher we have.

(The above was written in earnest!)

Ps.: Speaking of 'fuel-cells,' what's more important than a healthy human heart? This would break my heart, if you were to quit this forum on my account. In fact, I would have no recourse but to resign, and quit myself, should I ever upset Anyone, so badly.

My sincere apologies to the moderators, (and anyone else who didn't get it too.)