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Fort lauderdale overnight in canal

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Alzira II, Nov 17, 2019.

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  1. Alzira II

    Alzira II Member

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    I have access to a dock in Lauderdale on a canal which is part of about an 12 unit condo complex where we often keep our boat in winter. A couple people have dock space within the units and my close friend is one of them. We have reviewed the HOA and they are allowed to let me use it, we also come and go from the condo while we are in town. The HOA rules also state we are allowed to overnight in the boat a couple nights a month--I forget the number.
    I have heard from a couple people that overnighting within the city is a no-no. I just look up city ordinance and I cant find the specific set of rules regarding that. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge if this is a citywide no exceptions rule? It seems weird to me the HOA would explicitly allow it but the city deny. Maybe the HOA rules are 50 years old and the city has since banned?
    We are by no means living there but it would be nice to be able to sleep on the boat occasionally when we have an early flight or vice versa and be able to relax. We have done it here and there and never had an issue but particularly being in the condo complex I cant really relax like I would like know the rule for sure either way.
    As I am considering different boats this dock limits me to 50 feet and if I could relax and use it for overnights I would stick to that size but if I cant I might as well disregard the size as I will be at a marina anyways.
  2. Alzira II

    Alzira II Member

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  3. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    You can overnight, or live aboard if the dock has pump-out facilities.
    Also a zoning issue, although I don’t have the details.
    If somebody sleeps on a boat in my canal, the neighbors will complain, then call code.
    Keeping a low key is probably a good idea: Don’t play loud rap-music and dance naked on deck and you will probably be ok. :cool:
  4. Alzira II

    Alzira II Member

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    haha. I wish I could find the code. We dont have pump out. My biggest concern is my young children being loud.
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    That would be the neighbors' biggest concern too. You say "I have access to a dock" but you don't explain what that means. Do you rent it? Does someone just allow you to use it? The nature of your access may influence things too.

    You say the HOA says "we are allowed to overnight". Who we? Does it say homeowners or tenants or who?

    It also depends on how the docks are set up. Are they tied to the condo or are they separate properties under separate deeds?

    Within a group of close canals, zoning may vary widely. For instance, those zoned RS-8 and RS-4.4 can not legally be rented. Nearly all of Las Olas Isles and Seven Isles and Nurmi Isles is zoned either RS-8 or RS-4.4. However, Isle of Venice and Hendricks Isle are zoned RMM-25. New River has every zoning imaginable. Now, homeowners are typically tolerant if it's just storage, but living aboard in an area that doesn't allow rental will get one reported, especially if accompanied by noise.

    Here is the code section on habitation on floating homes or vessels (Note that habitation is any overnight stay and number of nights doesn't come into play in the city code:

    Sec. 47-19.6. - Habitation on floating homes and vessels.

    A. Definitions:

    1. Afloating homeis any waterborne structure designed for use primarily as a home or dwelling. The term also includes any vessel which has been altered or converted into a home or dwelling and which is incapable of navigation by means of self-propulsion.

    2. Avesselis any waterborne craft (other than a seaplane) used or designed and capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

    3. Habitationaboard a floating home or vessel means overnight occupation of it by one (1) or more persons, while the home or vessel is moored, docked or anchored in any of the public waterways lying within the city.

    4. Anincineration deviceis a facility approved by the United States Coast Guard located on a floating home or vessel which is capable of reducing waste from any floating home or vessel to clean ash. No smoke or residue or harmful discharges shall be emitted from this device.

    5. Amarine sanitation systemis a facility approved by all governmental authorities having jurisdiction over the marine sanitation system capable of removing waste from any floating home or vessel and discharging same into a sanitary disposal system approved by all governmental authorities having jurisdiction over the sanitary disposal system and available for use by persons living aboard a vessel or floating home.

    6. Anon-shore restroom facilityis an operating toilet located within an enclosed structure available for use at all times by persons who are using the adjacent property to dock or moor their vessel or floating home.

    7. Anownershall include a duly authorized agent, a purchaser, devisee, fiduciary, property holder or any other person, firm or corporation having a vested or contingent interest, or in case of leased premises, the legal holder of the lease contract, or the holder's legal representative, assign or successor. (See Section 401 of the Florida Building Code, Broward County Edition.)

    B. Habitation aboard a vessel is permitted in:

    1. Any municipal dock area;

    2. A licensed commercial marina lying within a P, CF, B-1, B-2, B-3, I or RAC district;

    3. A licensed yacht club;

    4. Waterways adjacent to property zoned B-1, B-2, B-3 or RAC; and

    5. Waterways adjacent to property zoned RM, RML, RMM, RMH or RAC.

    C. Habitation aboard a floating home (which has been certified for occupancy pursuant to Chapter 9 of Volume I of the Code) is permitted in:

    1. Any municipal dock area;

    2. A licensed commercial marina lying within a P, CF, B-1, B-2, B-3, I or RAC district;

    3. A licensed yacht club; and

    4. Waterways adjacent to property zoned B-1, B-2, B-3 or RAC.

    D. The owner of property which is adjacent to any portion of a public waterway shall not permit any vessel or floating home which is used for habitation to be moored or docked at such property unless the following conditions are met:

    1. The zoning district density limitations applicable to the real property adjacent to the vessel or floating home shall not be exceeded in residential areas (for the purpose of administration of this and the following subparagraphs, each vessel shall be considered and treated as the equivalent of a dwelling unit); provided, however, that if the waterway in which the vessel is to be located has a minimum width of one hundred (100) feet and does not terminate in a "dead end," then the density limitation shall be increased to a maximum of forty (40) units per net acre in order to accommodate habitation aboard the vessel;

    2. There is located on the property adjacent to which the vessel or floating home is moored or docked a number of parking spaces equal to the total number of the dwelling units located on such property and the vessels or houseboats moored or docked at such property;

    3. The requirements of all applicable laws and regulations, such as those governing public health, public safety, sanitation and the environment are met;

    4. Marine sanitation systems or on-shore facilities are provided if required pursuant to subsection D.5.

    5. If the owner of property is permitting any vessel or floating home equipped with a holding tank to moor or dock at such property, the property owner shall:

    a. Provide on the property at all times, one or more operable marine sanitation systems; or

    b. Provide for mobile marine wastewater disposal services through a contract between the property owner and a licensed contractor. Said contract shall provide that marine wastewater disposal services are available at least once a week to each floating home and vessel docked or moored at said owner's property. The property owner shall provide to the city a copy of the contract and provide on a monthly basis a copy of a report by the contractor identifying the number of times the contractor has serviced each floating home or vessel docked or moored at the property, the number of gallons of wastewater removed from each vessel and the location where the contractor disposed of the wastewater. Such disposal locations shall be legally authorized and approved for wastewater disposal.

    c. If the owner of property is permitting any vessel or floating home not equipped with a holding tank or an incineration device to moor or dock at such property, the property owner shall provide on the property, one (1) or more on-shore restroom facilities available for use at all times by persons living aboard the vessels or floating homes docked at the property. This on-shore restroom facility requirement shall not apply if such vessel or floating home is equipped with a marine sanitation device approved by the United States Coast Guard which disposes overboard effluents that meet standards approved for discharge by all applicable state, federal or local agencies that have jurisdiction.

    d. If the owner of property is permitting a vessel(s) or floating home(s) equipped with a holding tank and a vessel(s) or floating home(s) not equipped with a holding tank to moor or dock at such property, the owner must comply with the requirements provided in subsections D.5.a, b and c. On-shore restroom facilities and marine sanitation systems shall comply with all applicable zoning regulations. If compliance with a regulation would require the relocation of an existing exterior wall of a principal building, it shall be waived by the city only if the property owner can demonstrate that the proposed restroom facility is no larger than necessary to meet Florida Building Code, Broward County Edition, requirements and the requirements of this section and complies with the zoning regulations to the greatest extent possible as determined by the department.

    e. By February 1, 2001, all marine sanitation systems shall be equipped with a transparent sight tube at least two (2) inches in length as part of the pump-out hose assembly connecting the vessel to the pump-out station.

    E. No vessel or floating home will be moored or docked in a manner that extends more than thirty percent (30%) of the width of the waterway, measured from recorded property lines, and if a vessel is moored or docked adjacent to residential property, in a manner that extends beyond applicable side setback lines, except as provided in Section 47-19.3.H.

    F. As to floating homes only after a certificate of occupancy has been issued and obtained, as required pursuant to the provisions of Article V, Chapter 9, of Volume I of the Code.

    G. Habitation aboard a floating home or vessel in any other public waterway within the city, except as provided in this law, is prohibited.
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    This. There IS a city ordinance that doesn't allow overnighting behind a house or condo building if it doesn't have a pump out installed. You can usually get away with it for a night.

    "
    (a)

    All property owners of property located in any R-3, R-3-A, R-3-B, R-3-C, R-4 or R-4-C zoning district shall require that all vessels docked or moored at such a property, where habitation aboard is occurring, be connected at all times to a marine sanitation system or have an alternative marine sanitation system or incineration device.

    fortlauderdale.elaws.us/code/coor_ch8_artv_div1_sec8-156"
  7. Alzira II

    Alzira II Member

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    Now this is getting very interesting. Thank you olderboater for your help. To clarify your questions, it is a good friend's dock, he likes to see us get use out of it and the condo as it just sits there. We are a younger family and I think they enjoy seeing us use it for good family time, we all hide out from the winters and do thanksgiving and stuff together. He is not allowed to rent it out but he can let someone like me use it, I am not sure how they know we don't have a transaction but we don't. This is all per the HOA rules, obviously city rules are above and beyond. Keep in mind the question at hand is not can I live on my boat or hang out with my kids for a week on my boat this is,,, can we hang out for a weekend a month or a night before we blast off the keys and a night when we are getting back. We are quiet with zero music, I actually fully understand whey liveaboards are not allowed, If i owned a home across the canal the last think I would want is some houseboat in my backyard. I think we can all understand the slight difference of what we are trying to achieve.

    Now this is where it gets interesting. I got the zoning map and we are in zone RMM-25. So basically when I am seeing is this puts us under the jurisdiction of theIsle of Venice and Hendricks Isle islands,,, we are not there but same zoning area.

    So the RMM-25 areas, do they all have pump out at every space they rent overnight?
  8. Alzira II

    Alzira II Member

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    So I could b reading section D wrong. But it looks like as long as I have a weekly pumping contract I am good. I called a mobile place today and for about 100 buck a week we solve our problem.
  9. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Yes, ALL of the rental slips in the Las Olas Isles have pump out stations. That's how all of these city ordinances were enacted due to the concentration of long term live aboard slips in the Hendricks & Isle of Venice and the subsequent pollution of the waterways around them from overboard discharges. It was out of control in the 1980's and the water quality was thoroughly toxic until the city commission took it up and passed sweeping new laws regarding liveaboards in Broward county in the early 1990's. Chances are that you'll get away with a quiet night or two aboard with dim lights and low tv glare through the curtains but anything more and the neighborhood watch will jingle the coconut telegraph to code enforcement and fines will then ensue for the property owner.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I may be slow, but I don't grasp the "he can't rent it out but he can let someone like me use it." Still sounds way too much like a rental. However, that's an HOA issue.

    Actually, you having the contract for pump out doesn't meet the regulation. The owner of the property who is allowing you to dock overnight must have it and must provide a copy of the contract to the city and on a monthly basis must provide an invoice showing how many times it was pumped out.

    It gets very complicated and I'm sure many owners allow guests to overnight periodically with no problem. However, it only takes one person to involve the city and/or the HOA and create problems and that person may do that for many reasons including:
    -Noise from children that they find disturbing (you did mention earlier)
    -Previous problems that have made them diligent
    -They simply do not like the homeowner
    -They don't like any of the boats being docked in the area
    -They've had previous issues with people in the area dumping waste
    -Neighbor has spent the money and made the effort to comply and resents anyone who hasn't.

    As Capt Holli says, the Hendricks and Isle of Venice homes have very diligently complied with the rules as rental of docks is a significant business for many of the condos and motels in the area and now for the new condo buildings. Portable pump outs can be purchased very inexpensively. If this is going to be a regular thing I would recommend you buying the owner a marine sanitation system so they can simply comply just like the hundreds of others do.
  11. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    Are we talking one of those tanks/pumps on wheels, a "waste Caddy".... does that meet the requirement?
  12. Alzira II

    Alzira II Member

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    I’m not sure the people commenting are fully understanding the context of the situation and essentially we got to the bottom of the problem by discovering what zoning area we are in. Olderboater was able to find the actual legal language and I checked the zoning map. Whoever the pump contract name is in is not a big deal, as I stated earlier there is zero issue with us using the dock, we are friends, if we throw the contract in his name it doesn’t matter. The contract would be for an actual pump boat to come pump the boat weekly and they file with the city, this is a common commercial service you can get about anywhere. If my 2 year old causes someone a bother they literally can’t do anything about it other than change the hoa rules or call the cops at which point they can come out and see there is no legal noise issues. With the legal right to sleep on the boat in his backyard there is no difference in us sitting on the boat where we happen to sleep or us sitting on the boat and sleeping inside the condo.