Fleming Owners?

John,

My uncle had the Selene 58 for about 6 months, then sold it, someone offered him more money then what he paid for it… cant say no with those ones. So I can’t tell u about wear and tear. i can tell u that the metal work looked pretty good, but it could have been 304g s/s and not a better grade, and the timber work was fine also, its only when u get up and close to the timber work where u notice the joining could have been a bit better in some areas. u do hear some scary stories coming from china, but it seems to be ok with this brand. I feel that this line of boats are a bit young for any bad stories to arise though. I personally would stick with the GB, u know your going to get the boat u paid for. Good hunting

far

Fleming 55 alternative

If you are looking at a Fleming 55 then you should also consider the Offshore 58 or 62 (same boat, just different stern arrangement). I had one, 1996 58' with MAN engines. Great all round boat, good in the ocean and very comfortable for extended cruising. Even used mine for marlin fishing. In comparison to the 55 Fleming, it is a FAR larger vessel. The salon especially. Sailed mine down most the Queensland coast and have nothing but good experiences to share. Was caught in a following sea, at least 4 to 5 meters and she tracked true all the way. Just watch out for moisture in the sides of pilothouse and check the sole here as well because many owners cruise in all weather with the pilothouse doors open, not realising how much sea water is being blown in, this then tracks into the master cabin and ensuite. Believe the Fleming is a very well built boat. The Offshore is built in Taiwan by Carmague Yard, excellent reputation IMO. Selene is different as I believe it is full displacement, so its built to survive the worst seas and you will use more for extended cruising rather than a day trip. Any of these 3 vessels are, in my opinion, the dream boat for a couple! DO IT!!!!!!!

We looked at both their 55 and 65 extensively and was pretty impressed with them both. The size difference between the two was night and day. The 55 was a little snug, but very well put together and very well thought out. The jump from the 55 to the 65 is a completely different boat in both size and engineering. I'm personally not a huge fan of the MAN engines they use in the 65, but they seem do work well for them.

There were a few weird however minor quirks about them on the finish. We were given a detailed tour of the boat with praise on their fit and finish all the way through from the factory rep. and then when we came across something as minor as a door latch / strike plate that was completely butchered, we were kind of left scratching our heads.

Out on the water, both the 55 and 65 are very fine boats. Very predictable, stable, quiet, and comfortable. We have friends with an older 55 which we've spent a fair amount of time on the water with them on, which led up to look at their current offerings when we were looking for a smaller boat.

I was impressed with everything about them other than the couple of minor quirks like I mentioned earlier. It's a displacement hull, so it's not fast, but it is stable. We ended up going with something in the same range, but would get up and cruise at 17ish kts.

If cruise speed wasn't one of our major considerations, we would have probably purchased a Fleming without reservation. Very well built, very functional, well thought out for the cruiser, and safe.

1. Main Engines: MAN R6-800 CRM 800 hp, used in the Fleming 65. (the 55 uses Cummins QSC 500's, and they went back to MAN's in the 75) There is nothing wrong with the MAN's, I'm just not a fan of them in smaller boats where a CAT, JD, or other engine will take it's place. I don't know why, it's just personal preference, so take it with a grain of salt.

2. Per Fleming, of course it will "cruise" at 17 knots. Ask Tony Fleming to define 'cruise' for you (when needed is not 'cruise'). The 55 and 65 at 17kts is burning 45 and 65+ GPH respectively and taking your range from >3,000 miles to +/-500 miles. Now, if you needed to light the coals to tuck in a harbor to beat a storm to port, sure, that's one thing, and yes, near WOT, she'll do 17kts, but it's a displacement hull, it's not designed to do 17 kts cruising economically, no matter how much engine you give it. The hull is designed exceptionally well to cruise along at 6 to 10 kts. And that it does quite well, and will do well for long distances.

3. GB 59'. However after a season with it, we are now considering something slightly larger in the 65' to 70' footprint. Personal requirements and preference. The GB has been superb in every way. Just a tick too small for us when loaded up with friends, family, etc.

4. I do not. I can ask / speak to our friends who have a 55 and ask them, but they are not much on the "online" gig for other resources, discussion forums, etc. You could also touch base with Fleming and have them send you a copy of their mag, I think it's called Venture, which is much like Nordhavn's "Circumnavigation" publication. All the ins and outs within the Fleming owners group.

Fleming Promotional Magazine

The magazine from Fleming is called Venturer and can be viewed directly from the Fleming website.

http://www.flemingyachts.com/vmag.html

Just click on the image of the magazine cover to view.

No worries. Not argumentative at all. I have had all of the same questions and mind warping trying to get my head around the few different boats we put on our "to be considered list'.

I guess it comes down to what you consider cruise. I don't consider Fleming's boat cruising at 17kts, burning 65GPH "cruising". At least not in the economical sense. (referring to the 65' Fleming) and at that burn rate, taking your range down to the 500 mile range. That, in my book isn't cruising all day long. While the GB is not leaps and bounds better, I believe the hull design lends itself better to doing 15+kts than the Fleming does. I don't know off the top of my head what we burn at 17kts, but I can look and post later if you wish. I do remember that at 10kts, we are right around 10.5GPH and about 1200 mile range. Don't quote me though, that's from my rusty memory. I do know we're not at 65GPH though at the upper band though where Fleming is. Where the Fleming sets itself apart (IMO) is the overall range. They kill the GB in this category.

I've actually never seen a Fleming from outside (another boat running along side) while running at 15kts, so I have no idea. When we did sea trials, it didn't feel like she was taking that attitude at higher speeds, but I honestly don't know.

You are correct. (see above)

Yes, the price point on the GB is higher than Fleming, and this was also a consideration on our part as well. we loved a lot about the Fleming, which in all honesty, is a very nice boat, but it came down to personal preference and speed.

Nope. Live on the West currently. Boat is down in Mexico. Should be in S. Fl. summer 2010. I'm going to try and make a horse trade with my brother on it when we move to the next boat. He thinks he wants a boat, and the GB would be a good 'get your feet wet' boat for he and his Wife who are in Tampa.

Fall Rush, here is the burn info on the GB 59
This is from GB, which our numbers are a little different (slightly better).

RPM / KTS / GPH
900 / 8.2 / 6
1200 / 10.3 / 13
1500 / 11.7 / 32
1800 / 17.2 / 64
2100 / 22.3 / 91
2300 / 22.5 / 103

You can compare to Fleming's info on their website.

Fleming Owners

If you are seriously looking at an alternative to a GB try a Marlow Explorer, very good well built and good re sale:

One step ahead of you.
Looked at their 65, 70 and 72 a couple weeks ago.

Ocean Alexander

So it goes on!!!
Have you considered an Ocean Alexander?
Not sure how good the quality is on the newer ones but the old ones were terriffic. Had an OA 50 Mark1, full displacement, rolled in the ocean like a barrel and was powered by twin elastic bands (Ford Lehman 120Hp), but we loved her like a baby. All character, but lots of work on the teak rails. They still fetch good prices due to their strength.
Would consider a newer plus 60 footer.
Good hunting.

OA is another great boat in comparison to both Fleming and Marlow.
I think they're better than Marlow's, personally.

I looked at the 60 Classico when it was first released, and it's quite nice.
Not our preferred GA, but a nice boat indeed and well worth a look for someone in that market.

It's very rare to find an OA owner who has anything bad to say about their boat. Current, or prior vintage.

AMEN TO THAT!

I've spent about 10 years running Flemings, Grand Banks, Marlows, OA's, and others. The one thing I've found is that boat owners come in two types: ones who always think their boat was the best choice, and those who always complain about their boat and have issues with the builder, broker, and yard. The combination of seakeeping, efficiency, and speed are different things to different boaters. I've run Flemings all day long at 16knots, so I know that they will cruise that speed. I believe they market the boat with a semi-displacement hull, not a planing or displacement hull. Keep in mind that every boat is a trade off in terms of speed, cost, hull design, layout, etc. Weight will bring a smoother ride, but more fuel burn at speed. Less surface area under the water (rudders, keel, stabilizer sizes) will bring speed, but reduce rough seas slower speed performance. High yearly production numbers will bring lower resale values, custom one off boats will result in terrible resale.

Do you favor any ONE of the boats you ran and if so, why?

Thanks!

I'd recommend looking at a Jefferson Pilot House 57 or 64 as well. We have a 57 and it is a great boat. Not the best of the best quality wise, but if you take care of her she stays in good condition. The boats from 4-5 years ago looked like a Selene, but were sleeker, as they're semi-disp. The salon windows are a bit different now. The difference between the 57 and 64 is a slightly larger salon and an extended cockpit.

It's a tough call. The situations (in terms of sea state, wind, etc) are always different and the boats are never exact model to model comparisons. So all I can do is generalize what I've observed. The Flemings have a lower cruise than some other boats (16-17ish kts) in good weather. But as soon as it starts to turn nasty, they don't bounce around as much. They are definitely the quietest boats I've run. The OA's were nice as well, probably not the same fit and finish in the engine room and other places you don't normally look. Wider beams meant more interior space along with a higher deck level to give it a yacht like feel. Add in less weight overall and it seemed to bob like an empty milk jug going across the gulf. On the Marlow, I was impressed with the open layout, until I spent a few hours running the boat when we were out afterdark and the lower helm was a compromise. In good weather it wasn't an issue, but the distractions from the family and televisions while navigating in the rain and fog was a bit much on the nerves. Having a pilothouse also gives you a place to sit, read, watch tv and be away from the other people in the salon. On the Marlow I also noticed a vibration that seemed to permeate the entire hull at certain speeds. I've heard it from other captains too, I guess it's part of that lightweight construction. Having the ability to run above 20 knots was nice, but we rarely used that speed as it wasn't as comfortable as in the 'teens where the boat rode a little softer. Another rambling thought: the owners of boats are difficult to stereotype in general, but some boats tend to draw less experienced owners who buy a boat based on square footage or 'floorplan' like it's a house. They don't realize that every part of the boat is designed, engineered, and built to different standards with different builders. Other owners are more experienced and don't buy a boat because it's big, but because it has the highest quality. If I ever win the lottery it will be a Fleming for me.