Flag Protocol Question

Did someone just stick a "kick me" sign on this board or ??

Can non commercial vessels carry cargo? Would not that make them commercial?

Curt

Hi,

What does the Q Flag have to do with what you are carrying?

None of the yachts I know of have carried what would normally be considered cargo.

I do believe there are situations where a private vessel can be commissioned for a public purpose or to carry a destination oriented cargo. It was done in WWII for troop transport and coastal patrols. I think the English use to issue "letters of Marque". As to the flagging protocol, maybe the admiralty gurus on this site can answer that question

If a non-commercial boat was carrying commercial cargo, it would be illegal. It is illegal for a non-commercial boat to carry cargo without it being an inspected vessel and it would need to be a commercial vessel to carry cargo for hire. A pleasurecraft is not allowed to carry cargo for hire. Unless it is a US. Documented vessel carrying war supplies and stuff in times of war for the US (like back in WW1 and prior). As far as I know.

Since you are talking about US regs we will stick to that for the moment. You might want to review your CFRs, captain.

A US documented vessel can hold both recreational and coastwise endorsements.

A recreational vessel can carry cargo (freight) but not "for hire."

A coastwise endorsed vessel carrying freight for hire does not have to be an "inspected vessel" if it is <15 tons.

A pleasure vessel <15 tons with a coastwise endorsement can carry freight for hire as long as the crew is properly certificated.

An uninspected towing vessel can tow a 10,000 ton barge full of cargo.

Hmmm.... it's an interesting question. The only thing I can think of with flags is that it would not be allowed to fly a yacht ensign and it may have to fly a Bravo if it's carrying hazardous materials.

"Yacht ensigns" have about as much validity as a martini flag. Unless of course it is on a UK vessel then it becomes a matter of heraldic nonsense and poofery associated with warrants and one's club association.

In any case, it is the flag state that determines who can carry what cargo on what vessel and since this silliness continues, have a look at the Large Yacht Code which has been adapted through cut and paste by most of the common yacht registries. Pleasure or commercial, yachts don't carry commercial cargo, even though they may be classed as "cargo ships" for regulatory purposes.

May?

Marmot

With due respect, why so dogmatic on an esoteric question for which no defintive answer has yet been provided. It's an interesting exchange of ideas while the ice thaws up here in the NE. BTW, there are precise rules for flying a yacht ensign as you know. The martini flag has yet to be given "official" recognition, though it is probably more recognizable in most marinas.

Mostly because the question isn't esoteric, it is a matter of yachting registration and international regulations on which a professional yacht captain should have a solid foundation.

The answer was provided. Private yacht is a legal description of a vessel registration provided by many flag states. They are by definition prohibited from the carriage of freight for hire.

The vast majority of yachts the OP and his father see fall under the Large Yacht Code. That standard, which has been adapted by many yacht's flag states, specifically declares that their use, even when commercially registered, excludes the carriage of cargo for hire.

As far as carrying dangerous cargo, there are many international and local regulations governing procedures and notification as well as the display of flags and signals in certain areas during certain activities. These are procedures in which captains are supposedly trained.

This is not dogma. It is a foundation of the regulatory environment in which the owner of a yacht entrusts his captain to operate. Considering the liability to which an uninformed captain can expose an owner, and the often (and recently claimed by captains) justification for high rates of compensation and claims of responsibility, it is amusing when they exhibit such a fundamental lack of professional knowledge.

No disrespect intended to the OP as the question certainly shows that he is not well versed in the details of yachting's regulatory environment, but it is difficult to understand how anyone would believe that a private yacht might operate as a common carrier and advertise that operation by way of a special flag.

Marmot


Thank you for a nicely reasoned response, I always appreciate learning something from this forum.