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Engine exhaust run on Diesel Carvers

Discussion in 'Carver Yacht' started by timjet, Nov 2, 2011.

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  1. timjet

    timjet Member

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    I'm a little concerned that the exhaust run from my Cummins Diesel powered 355 ACMY maybe a little flat. After posting pics on boatdiesel.com it got some comments.

    Has anyone operating a Carver Aft Cabin boat heard of any issues with water backing up into the engine due to a too flat exhaust run??

    Thanks, Tim
  2. sam356

    sam356 Member

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    You have riser wich should be higher than the water line . If unsure see if you can get a hold a marine mechanic and he should tell you.
  3. timjet

    timjet Member

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    There is no riser at the turbo. It's a flat elbow out of the turbo and then to the back of the boat.

    Attached Files:

  4. Jorge Lang

    Jorge Lang Senior Member

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    From the photo, it does not appear to be the best of scenarios. You want the mixer to be at a down angle not only to keep the water from backing up into the engine, but also to have an even amount of spray around the mixer at low engine rpm's. There is a frp elbow heading downward. The important question is where is the waterline relative to the center of the turbo? Feel free to continue on this thread or you can pm me as well.
  5. timjet

    timjet Member

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    The water line is a foot or more below the turbo but as the photo shows the immediate section past the turbo has very little slope down.
    The boat is a '98 and to my knowledge has had no issues with water flowing back into the engine. But of course I may have just been lucky though I would think if this was a problem, Carver would have had a bunch of issues with this.
    There is very little room above the turbo because of the floor boards.

    The picture shows the port engine which does not have the original exhaust elbow. The PO had the work done. The stbd engine has the original exhaust elbow, all metal, not like the black one shown in the picture. I called the company that I believe made the elbow shown in the picture and they said the elbow is stainless steel covered with a black composite thermal covering. I suspect who ever did the work copied the original elbow and replaced it with whats in the picture. This is OK and probably better than the original but still retained the very little slope away from the turbo.

    My other concern is the stbd engine which has the original elbow. The place that made the port elbow highly suggested I replace the stbd one due to its age, 14 yo.

    I've got some research to do.
  6. Jorge Lang

    Jorge Lang Senior Member

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    It appears that the stbd side is watercooled from your discription. As long as the water drains when the engines are shut down, you should be fine. It would not be a bad idea for that exhaust elbow to be sandblasted and pressure tested when you have somedown time.
  7. Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

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    Most exhaust manufacturers like to see a slope of 1" per foot on the exhaust run to the transom, which it sounds like you have based on the size of the boat and height you mentioned. Only thing I see that could cause a backflooding issue is the lack of a surge tube. From the pic it doesn't look like there's much room for one though.

    Most sportfishing boats have these to allow surges of water flooding the tube when reversing hard to flow past the riser outlet and hopefully not up into it.

    One thing I would caution against doing with that setup, or any exhaust setup for that matter, is anchoring stern-to current or waves. With no surge protection any water forced into the exhausts may find it's way to a very bad place. Stern anchoring is generally a bad idea anyway even in a secluded anchorage when winds and waves can unexpectedly rise in storms and I know of several boats that either swamped of flooded their engines caught anchored stern to.

    Definitely replace that other riser too before you have a failure!
  8. sam356

    sam356 Member

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    If I'm not mistaking you have a side exhaust on your carver.
  9. RB480

    RB480 Senior Member

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    You don't have a muffler somewhere before the exit of the boat? I have never heard of water ingestion in a 355 but I believe its since the engines are quite a bit higher than the side exit exhaust on your transom.
  10. timjet

    timjet Member

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    Thanks guys for all your comments. I finally got down to the boat last weekend and took a good look at the exhaust systems on both engines. The picture I posted does not show the slope very well. Reading Bill106 comments I measured the vertical distance from the flange where the exhaust elbow connects to the turbo and where the exhaust tube connects to the muffler. It is a constant slope with a run of 40" and a vertical drop of 5.5" The exhaust is out the side of the boat very near the transom.

    The starboard side (not pictures) has pretty much the same slope. Gravity will move water well away from the turbo on both engines.

    With this in mind I am not concerned with the design of the exhaust system but rather the integrity of the starboard side mixing elbow. It will not be a simple matter to check because the flange bolts (4) that connect the elbow to the turbo cannot be removed. I had a mechanic heat them and it did no good. So I'm going to have them cut off to remove the elbow and then the holes drilled out, hopefully without doing damage to the holes in the turbo where the exhaust elbow connects to. If they are damaged I guess they will have to be re-tapped.

    I will probably not reuse the existing elbow since I'm going to so much trouble to remove it and it is 14 years old.

    Tim
  11. RB480

    RB480 Senior Member

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    Its interesting to me that you had an exhaust elbow replaced at one point on the boat. I have a friend who recently bought a 4100 SCA Maxum and he had to have the exhaust elbow on the starboard engine re-fabbed since it was leaking on his 330B Cummins (Which is what I think you have). I know of 3 other 330B boats that are aft cabin designs that needed the same remedy.
  12. timjet

    timjet Member

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    The exhaust elbow on the port engine was replaced as RB480 mentioned and is pictured at the beginning of this thread. I don't know why or under what circumstances or how long ago it was replaced. The PO turned hostile and is no help.

    After doing some research it appears the exhaust system on my 355 ACMY is properly designed and installed. Due to the slope away from the turbo any failure due to corrosion in the exhaust elbow should allow water to drain toward the muffler and not into the engine.

    The starboard exhaust elbow is 14 years old and is working fine but given it's age I want to be proactive and deal with it now before a potential failure. We're planning an Abacos cruise next year and I want the peace of mind that all is well.

    Anybody know of a exhaust specialist in the Tampa Bay area?
  13. Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

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    replacing exhaust riser

    You will probably be best served trying to get in touch with the origional maker of the elbow as they woul likely have the drawings on file and could duplicate one easily. I can't tell from the pic but it is most likely either Marine Exhaust in Rivera Beach (866) 845-3853 or DeAngelo (800) 952-8555. Try calling them.
  14. timjet

    timjet Member

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    Thanks Bill. The starboard side is original so no drawings on file. I talked to Marine Exhaust about the port side (pictured at beginning) and they have no record on file because the PO probably had a mechanic do the work and the work order would be under his name. But since the boat was located in the Punta Gorda area, I suspect they did the work. I'll call DeAngelo too.

    Know anyone in the Tampa area that would install it?
  15. Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

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    Is there a name plate tag on either of the elbows? Usually Marine Exhaust or DeAngelo rivets a name plate with serial number on their units. They also both make them for OEM's and engine manufacturers who also may have a record. From the looks of the pic it has their proprietary black exhaust wrap so it is one or the other's, not a "backyard" riser. If you can't find any numbers you can always remove the old one and send it to them, they can make an exact new copy from that.
    Changing one out is not difficult at all, four bolts on the turbo housing (you will get new ones with the unit), and a couple hose clamps. While you're at it, change the hoses at the same time and get new clamps. Tighten the clamps, test run to check for leaks, and tighten them again. Should be any number of mechanical guys in your area that can do that if you're not comfortable with it, watch over their shoulder so next time you'll feel confident!
  16. timjet

    timjet Member

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    I'll look close to see if there is some id on the elbow. Good idea.

    3 of the 4 bolts will have to be cut out and then drilled out of the turbo. If done carefully hopefully the turbo won't have to be re-tapped. Already had a mechanic spend nearly an hour heating the bolts to no avail. The retapping is the part I'm not comfortable with.
  17. Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't imagine heating bolts in a turbo would accomplish much, even wet (water cooled) turbos run pretty hot in normal usage. Soaking them with PB Blaster for a couple days with an occasional tap by a hammer, then an impact gun would be my first recommendation. If that didn't work, I'd try to cut or as a last resort grind off the bolt heads, remove the old elbow and use vice grips to get the studs out. Grinding or cutting will leave millions of little rust bunnies so try and contain the shavings and vacuum all that you can immediately afterwards and then thoroughly wash out the bilge.
  18. timjet

    timjet Member

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    follow up

    Thanks guys for all your help.
    I had an exhaust specialist look at the starboard exhaust system. He dug right in and removed the old riser. It was pretty much shot and he showed me where it was leaking. Actually I had seen the leak, but thought it was coolant, not raw water. A green stalagmite had formed on the bottom of the riser flange which I thought was coolant leaking from the heat exchanger.
    He was able to remove the 3 bolts without cutting them by using a product called thru flow. It works like PB Blaster but better. It took about an hour of working with them, but he did get them out.
    The new riser should be ready by the end of the week. It is a duplicate of the port riser that is made by Marine Exhaust System in Stuart FL. Not cheap, but should out last the boat.