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Duck Boat accident in Philly

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by chesapeake46, Jul 9, 2010.

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  1. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    A couple days ago a tour boat in Philadelphia was hit by a tug and barge.
    Two young people were lost and both bodies were found today, one in the morning and one this afternoon.
    It is not clear yet whether the tug was pulling or alongside the barge.
    The news article made a point that the duck boat did not have a radar reflector which I believe would be unnecessary for a squareish steel truck/boat.
    There was a photo on the web yesterday of the instant of impact which showed the duck boat barely visible under the bow of the barge.

    I imagine the tug captain is responsible but I wondered if he would be charged with something like manslaughter or worse........



    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100709/ap_on_re_us/us_duck_boat_accident

    http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Delaw...lYwN5bl9yX3RvcF9waG90bwRzbGsDYW5hbXBoaWJpb3Vz
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    A duck boat being square would show up on radar without an issue. It should not need a reflector to show up on radar, as radar sends out microwaves and when they hit something it bounces the waves back. Sailboats have more of an issue of reflecting back as the bow is very thin and so is the stern without any flat areas to send the signal back.
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Unless drugs or alcohol were involved, which I doubt (professionals), I doubt any criminal charges will be forthcoming. The master will of course have the CG & NTSB to deal with as well as private suits (I can smell the lawyers circling). Tragic accident.
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I wonder if the tour bus was cutting in front of the barge when it broke down also I read that a distress call was made on Ch 13 when the tour bus broke down. I wasn't aware that was Distress Frequency so maybe no one heard it.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Up on the Delaware channel 16 is very much ignored by commercial traffic. Been there/ seen it. There is just too much chatter by and about Sunday sailors. There is also a lot of commercial traffic in the area so it is not uncommon to have the volume on 16 lowered, because there is a lot of communications happening on 13. What's right and what is most likely to be effective are not always the same thing. He should of course put out a distress call on 16, and I don't know that he didn't also, but going to 13 did give him the best odds of reaching the traffic that poised the biggest threat to them.
    BTW, In my previous post I should have said "Both Masters".
  6. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    In the news reports on TV it said the Duck had mechanical difficulties immediately after splashing in.
    Of course after the fact it is easy to say they should have started firing off flares and anything else once the barge was approaching.
    In fact once the mechanical difficulties happened everyone should have been told to get the life preservers on right away.
    16 and 20 yrs old, very sad.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Do we know if the barge was going up or down river. If down he would have very few options that would have any effect in that area.
  8. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    Thats a good point.
    From the pics on TV I thought " upstream" but I was assuming the pics were from the PA side and not the NJ side. Also assumed they were the correct oreintation.

    Based on the interview with the NTSB representative, by the time they are done, they will know everything from the direction of travel to what each person had for dinner the night before.
    Thorough to the Nth degree.
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I just saw that pic on CBS News. It appears that the barge is moving upriver and about 1/2' off high tide, but couldn't catch if it was coming up or going down (clip went too fast). The tide there was about 7'. "The NTSB is investigating why a warning horn failed" ABC News.
  10. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    They had a memorial service yesterday in the rain for the two kids lost in the accident.

    This is a pretty nasty picture of the acccident

    http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/gallery?section=news/local&id=7541998&photo=37

    If you follow the sequence you can see there are people in the Duck as it is being overrun.

    Last nights news was focusing on whether there were look outs on the barge and the lack of distress signals, ( only one has been documented on Ch.13 )

    Alcohol use by both crews has been ruled out and drug test results will return in about 1 week.
  11. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    Also the picture looks to me like the barge is traveling upstream.
  12. CaptTom

    CaptTom Senior Member

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    If you check the link and look at the first sets of photos, it appears that the duck was not totally run over but probably pushed a ways and maybe rolled to one side. Doesn't seem to be many marks on top of the vessel to indicate a full run over.
    Can't imagine what the captain, crew and guests were thinking as they saw the barge bear down on them. Captain of barge/tug probably never saw them.
    This is a problem when you run vessels like this in comercial waterways. Consider that this could have been any one of us in our recreational boats, what would you have done? Hail the tug on the radio? Mayday to the Coast Guard, fire a flare (I probably would not have done this)? We know how long it could take to get a barge to stop, so these guys were doomed from the start.
    Also consider that maybe many folks survived since they stayed on the boat and didn't jump overboard, potentially getting sucked under the barge due to close proximity.
    Not a good story, very sorry for the loss of life. But with every disaster there are lessons learned. Learn them and be safe.
  13. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    you must maintain a proper lookout.....if the tug was''on the hip'' of the high ridding barge as one of the photos show, the wheelhouse,and even the radar maybe, had little view of what was ahead....heads will roll,and lawyers will get richer......:(
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    If you look at pic # 78 you'll see the raised wheelhouse which should give ample visability unless the duck came under the bow at less than about 1/4 mi. or the upper wasn't being used for some reason. There doesn't seem to be that much of a bow wake or wake off the tug although that shot is a bit distant. Not so sure it wasn't going with the current which would make stopping near impossible depending how much notice they got. The NTSB report should make an interesting read.
  15. rocdiver

    rocdiver Senior Member

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    Barge Running Against Current

    If the Duck was indeed at anchor as was reported then the barge was going upstream as it ran over it from the rear. Assuming the Duck was anchored from the front as would be expected.

    ROCKY
  16. JB1150

    JB1150 New Member

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    The barge is moving upstream. The White Tank under the bridge is located on the New Jersey side of the river in Camden, NJ. The Philly side on both sides of bridge have buildings that rise to the level of the bridge and would have been visible in the shot. I commuted over that bridge for 4 years.
  17. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    07/14/10 update on the Duck

    Below is a copy of an article from the Phila. Inquirer by Troy Graham.

    Sumamrized.
    No look out on the barge.
    A clear dry day and calm seas.
    A mate was running the tug.
    A second mate was minding the engineering duties on the tug.
    The remaining crew incl. the captain were off shift and asleep.
    One deck hand or mate somewhat accuses the Duck boats in general as not really abiding by the rulls or the road.

    Is the Captain ultimately responsible even though he was off shift?

    Begin Inquirer article

    Tug mate in Philadelphia duck crash did not put lookout on barge, union official says
    By Troy Graham

    Inquirer Staff Writer

    The mate piloting a tugboat involved in a fatal accident last week did not station the only other working crew member as a lookout on the barge they were pushing up the Delaware River, a marine union official said Tuesday.

    Instead, the deckhand remained in the tug, where he would have been making rounds and tending to anything the mate needed.

    Coast Guard regulations, known as the Rules of the Road, say vessels must "maintain a proper lookout by sight." The rules are vague, however, and do not specify what pilots must do to comply.

    Whether the tug crew was in the best position to see the disabled Ride the Ducks craft is one of the many questions arising from the accident last Wednesday, which killed two tourists from Hungary.

    If the deckhand had been positioned on the barge, for example, he likely would have seen the tourist craft, anchored in the shipping channel with 35 passengers aboard.

    But on a clear day, having a lookout on the barge should not have been necessary to spot the vessel and comply with the Coast Guard's safety rules, said Steve Oravets, the director of special projects for the tug crew's union, Local 333, United Marine Division of the International Longshoremen's Association.

    In fact, he said, when only one deckhand is on duty, it is safer to have him inside the tug.

    "You're just as likely to have something go wrong on the tug. . . . You want to have somebody up on the tug who can smell smoke, stick his head in the engine room," said Oravets, a tug captain for 20 years. "I've had a fire a couple of times and lost steering a couple of times, and I was **** glad I had a guy on board and not way out on the barge."

    Oravets, who is based in Staten Island, N.Y., provided the first account of the collision from the tug crew's perspective. On Friday, federal investigators gave a detailed briefing based on interviews with the crew and passengers of the amphibious tourist craft.

    Oravets came to Philadelphia shortly after the accident and met with four of the five crew members of the tug, the Caribbean Sea. He said the mate appeared shaken and was on his way home, so he did not try to speak with him.

    The captain and deckhand on Duck 34 told investigators that they noticed the barge when it was 400 yards away.

    Although there is a blind spot in front of a barge, at 400 yards the mate would have seen Duck 34 from the upper pilot house, Oravets said.

    He said the mate may have assumed the vessel was under way and failed to realize it was disabled and anchored in his path.

    "He's probably seen them cross his bow a hundred times," he said. "They don't pay attention to the Rules of the Road."

    A Ride the Ducks spokesman noted that the group's captains were certified by the Coast Guard and said they followed the Rules of the Road.

    It is not known whether the mate saw Duck 34, because he "exercised his Fifth Amendment right" and refused to meet with federal investigators on Saturday, according to the National Transportation Safety Board.

    Oravets did not know why the mate took the Fifth, but he said criminal charges often were pursued in fatal incidents.

    "I assume this investigation is going to crucify the mate because he didn't have a lookout on the barge," Oravets said. "That's typically the case. The poor guy on the boat gets the blame."

    Duck 34's captain and deckhand said they shut down their engine and dropped anchor in the shipping channel after seeing and smelling smoke on board, according to the NTSB.

    Captain Gary Fox told investigators that he broadcast to nearby vessels on Channel 13 that he had stopped, and that he called the ducks' dispatcher to send another duck to pick up his passengers.

    The collision happened from five to 10 minutes later, the NTSB said. When the barge, moving at five knots, drew close, Duck 34's crew tried to radio the tug on Channel 13 and signal the boat with an air horn, which failed.

    The tug did not respond to the radio calls, but other vessels in the area reported hearing them, the NTSB said. Duck 34 did not use Channel 16, the emergency frequency monitored by the Coast Guard.

    Coast Guard officials also said they did not pick up any radio calls on Channel 13.

    Typically, Oravets said, a captain or mate is listening to three radios at the same time. He said the mate could have missed Duck 34's calls.

    "He's in the upper pilot house. You're above the exhausts, so you're going to have all that noise," he said.

    On tugs with five-man crews, the captain, the engineer, and one deckhand work from 6 a.m. to noon, then rest and sleep for six hours, before working from 6 p.m. to midnight.

    From noon to 6 p.m., the mate and the second deckhand are on duty. The collision happened about 2:30 p.m., during the mate's shift at the wheel.

    Federal investigators have interviewed the deckhand on duty, as well as the captain and engineer. They did not interview the off-duty deckhand, who was asleep at the time of the collision.

    The Caribbean Sea, owned by K-Sea Transportation, was pushing a city-owned sludge barge. A spokesman for K-Sea has said the company will not comment on details of the collision because of the ongoing investigation.

    Tugs used to have crews of six or seven members, including a cook and an assistant engineer, Oravets said. The industry in the New York area went to five-man crews in 1988, he said.

    "Why doesn't he have an extra man up there?" he asked. "Because the company decided back in 1988 to go cheap."

    Having only two people awake and on duty is "a vulnerability and always has been," he said, and the mate should not be blamed for making "a decision when he's working shorthanded."

    "I know the guy wasn't drunk or asleep or anything like that," he said. "He was doing everything that's normally done on a tug." "
    End Inquirer article
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    The answer from the Exon Valdez was yes.
    Thanks for the update chesapeake46. It sounds like everybody did everything right...and wrong. Nothing criminal though. Careers will be ruined, the tug and duck companies and probably some of the crews will be paying out big bucks for lawyers and settlements. Most notable though is that two young people lost their lives in a horrific way and several others were injured and traumatized. Very sad and tragic situation all around. Lessons to be learned.
  19. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    I saw an interview with the lawyer who will represent the two victim's families on the local news.
    He will bring law suits against the duck boats and the tug and he is contemplating whether to sue the city as well.

    The mate is keeping mum on the advice of his lawyer according to this article:

    http://www.sfexaminer.com/breaking/...rs-felony-charge-for-his-client-99251739.html

    From the artcle above :
    { In radio communications released Friday, the tug is heard telling the Coast Guard: "We are the ones that, I guess, capsized the duck boat. We're on scene, but we do have a barge alongside so there's not too, too much we can do." }

    This statement and the actual recording was on the news today and mentioned several times as proof positive that the mate did not KNOW what was going on around him according to the victim's lawyer.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    So the ambulance chasers are lining up. Shocked!:rolleyes: Smart mate. I guess they shouldn't have called in for help though. They'd have been better off rendering no assistance at all. Sad that people today have to be cold, but when sharks are circling it's best not to hand out food.:(