Differences in price points?

Your missing the currency exchange rate. When those Italian yachts were built and shipped over here The Euro $1 was worth $1.50 US, so when you convert $9million US it equals (roughly) $6mil Euro's and that is what they see in Italy (the factory) for the boat. So the initial price was higher.

A replacement boat (brand new) is higher for the Ferretti and Azimut due to the exchange rates. Therefore people are paying more for used ones because they can't afford a new one or what have you which has driven up demand for them.

It is almost entirely due to the difference in the cost of labor in Asia versus Italy, followed by the exchange rates (at least until recently) for those countries relative to the USD.

You can debate about style, workmanship, quality, etc, but those input costs are what makes the difference in price. (Assuming the hard goods -- engines, electronics, etc -- are equivalent).

When I was pricing my size boat (85') european versus asia, I didn't find that the difference in street price was that large when an apples-to-apples comparison was made. It was more like a 20% difference.

Lastly, I did find the quality to be superior on the european boats than most of the asian builds. It is a lot of subtle things, like sliding doors being flush mounted as opposed to surface mounted to the superstructure, complex curves instead of slab sided, gutters around teak decks versus none. Most probably didn't make a functional difference but the overall effect was like the difference between a Hyundai and a Bentley.

Here in europe. it is very noticable that the Ferretti Group put a premium price tag on their products- Ferretti, Mocchi, Apremare,Riva etc. Increasingly its now become generally obvious that they are simply not worth the price (overpriced) - discounts are available if you shop around, it would be viewed that they are about 25/30% over fair market value.
Azimut reached this general position about 2 years ago when it was generally acknowledged that they were overpriced which is reflected in their secondhand values in Europe.
There is a limit to how much you can load the price on a brand name, without offering fair value and quality to reflect that price - your potential customers eventually wake up. Hence you can buy year old or less models at very substancial discounts - please remember the asking price is rarely if ever the price actually paid.

Hi,

PropBet- When you are looking at the various boats please don't just look at the finished surfaces when trying to decide the build quality.

Open lockers and Cupboards, look in the bilges and under beds. Check out the way cables are treated and their entry to the switchboards and sub panels.

Check how pipes, cables and other hardware items are mounted secured. This is a good way to determine the builder who takes care and pride in their product and will be a good yardstick for the overall quality.

Even the "big name" yards are guilty of some shocking shortcuts here and there. A few years ago I was being shown around an almost finished 50m boat by the then Captain. I was horrified to see that the main saloon deckhead frames were held up in the middle by a piece of what looked like No 8 wire which was wrapped around a pipe and the tension was achieved by a piece of wood being used to twist the wire up ( the wood was and is probably still in there).

The differences between quality in a good builder and an average builder are mostly the things you don't see. How the vessel is plumbed for grey water (hard piped, or rubber hose you need to change every 10 years give or take), how the air conditioner system is plumbed and designed, soundproofing material used, thickness of fiberglass superstructure, quality of fasteners, stainless steel, woodwork, brands of equipment and parts installed.)

The Hong Kong boats have always had excellent woodwork, but their stainless and other metals used were always considered piss poor. On the Taiwan/hong kong boats everyone I know that had one had to replace every stainless hinge/latch/etc after the first year. You'd basically have to retrofit US stuff. Also, you'll notice things are small size wise on them, the shower heads and door openings are usually very low, the distance from the steering wheel to the helm seat is usually too short for someone 6'+. They're little people in Hong Kong and don't realize the rest of the world is taller/larger. Some things are nice like even the fuel lines are color coded and hard piped. Warranty support is up to the dealer and depending on the dealer can be almost non-existant sometimes.

The Italian boats- generally their weakpoint is electrical and has always been the case as is access to repairing things and engine room space. They do a good hull design, good gelcoat generally, a beautiful interior. Yet they are maintanence heavy, parts can be expensive relative to US boats and not as easy to come by, you'll know a good electrician. Yet I think Azimut definately leads the industry in the interior in this size range. Some things still suffer from the short person syndrome (not nearly as much as Hong Kong boats). Access to many items can be a real bear on the Feretti's from what I head.......and this is the case with the Azimuts also. I enjoy running an Azimut, but cannot stand taking care of them sometimes. I've managed a '04 50' azimut, a 2001 68 plus, a 1999 70' seajet.

I would honestly take a real hard look at American Built. Mainly Hatteras and then Lazzara in this class. Maintanence is much less and easier to get to maintanence items then both other nationality of builder(s) mentioned . Wear parts and parts that may break are easy to get locally and cheaper. They're built well overall and strong. Nice finishes. They're engineered so that maintanence is usually less. They both perform well, resale is good, components are all quality stuff. Warranty support is next to none, I've had to pull teeth to get Azimut to fix a few items, and had them deny others that Hatteras would've covered no questions asked. I've managed many hatteras'- 1979 58' YF, 2003 63' MY, '88 75' MY, as well as others over the years and have run most of the entire line through history.

From the standpoint of one who is looking to buy his first diesel powered boat in the 55'-60' range, I really appreciate the information in this post. While I'm not looking for a boat as large as what many of you play aboard or work on, it will be a sizeable upgrade for me.

I've considered some of the brands built in Taiwan as well as some American built boats. Being a newbie to this type of boat I've mainly looked at things like engine make/size, interior layout, engine room and lazarette layout, and the way the boat is equipped.

Thank you all for the input on other things to consider.

I think it's important to point out that several of the U.S. based builders using Taiwanese yards for manufacturing, utilize hardware and equipment manufactured in the U.S. These items are shipped overseas for fitting during the construction process. Parts and service are important factors in marketing these boats to U.S. based customers.

Also, regarding some Italian brands, they have more than just electrical problems, they have plumbing and hull delamination issues too. This caused at least one of them (no name, but major player) to adopt resin infusion to control their lack of laminate quality. Still, I find there laminates sub-par and their gelcoat turns to chalk in a short period of time. Worse, they shake like a can of Pringles with Parkinsons. I'm continually amazed that people buy boats based on aesthetics.

Sorry, got off on a tangent. It's hard to keep my keyboard shut when I see certain posts, but best to remain on the sidelines.

quality boats

with the italian price ranges at your sight, you can consider a dutch custom built boat, where you will have quality while you use it and much better after sale value once you want to sell, because they last much longer than the italians and taiwanese.

If you're going Dutch, Moonen or Bloemsma Van Breeman should top the list. I spent about an hour talking shop with Neco van Breeman at FLIBS. Although their name is not as well known, 85% of their sub-contractors work for Feadship. And if you need feedback on the quality an Emile Bilterijst, Moonen built boat, Nilo has first hand knowledge.

Current exchange rate issues make custom builds increasingly attractive from quality sources outside of Europe notwithstanding 'brand' high pricing that has been known to occur with some well known European builders. Most custum builds here in New Zealand for example are for US and European owners who reportedly achieve as good or even better quality than either the US or Europe makers deliver but will now save even more on the labour cost component. As another option and if time is available, maybe identify the architect first, or a project management outfit, and then consider build options?