Composite yachts - how do they compare to each other?

You would turn to a mirror and ask yourself if you're willing to take the time to go inspect the latest build from each yard in question, as well as to pay a visit to those same yards to see/hear what changed in the last few months and what they will be doing differently in the future, and to what standards.

Then, you would be sufficiently educated to make your decision--until next year when it all changed.

As a practical approach I would take just as hard a look at the NA office or staff that the builder works with. It's doubtful (to me at least) that a top flight NA office would play along with mediocre hull fabrication.

Kelly Cook

Yacht Novice,

I have undeleted your post because it causes the follow up responses to look out of place. Please don't do that again when engaging our members. If you'll give this thread some time (you just posted a couple of hours ago), you'll likely find some wisdom here, but keep in mind... a few of us are getting ready for a boat show right now.

That said... your assumption regarding US composite builders is correct. But remember, there is far more to this equation then fit, finish, joinery, design, etc. A HUGE factor is the people you will work throughout the building process and the support that follows after delivery. This can be the difference between fulfilling a dream and a never-ending nightmare. Based on that criteria alone... the answer is easy to me. Christensen or Westport.

Yacht novice

In yachting you'll get what you pay for.
The Aluminium (mostly used in Northern European yachts) or composite question seems to be an endless issue at the forum. Best is to check for scientific reports and tests. You will learn that the result is often found in yachts of the following shipyards;
Feadship
Royal Huisman
Oceanco
A&R
Lürssen
Hakvoort
Holland Jachtbouw
Heessen
Bloemsma & Van Breemen
Alloy yachts
Fitzroy

Check how many world class yachts they have built and how many of them are built in composites.

To learn more on Christensen read YF review.

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/y...s/6295-review-christensens-157-barchetta.html

and a review on the Westport 164

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/y.../5325-review-westport-164-tri-deck-vango.html

Also, keep in mind most of the N. European builders are truly one-off (custom) builders and using composite is not cost effective for hulls (building molds etc.). Now, if a N Euro builder could use composite in a cost effective manner similar to aluminum or steel would they? Another reason composite is good or even steel is the ease of repair. Most areas around the world you can find some one who could repair composite or weld steel but aluminum, from what I understand, needs a specialized welder which may not be available in some areas of the world.


CONGRATS to me. This is my 100th posts... Carl do you need me to find a name of a baker so you can order my YF 100th post cake

repairs of composites is not so easy

Dear Lionel,

Firstly congratulations for your 100th post. I do agree that there might be cost advantages for serial production of composite hulls, but I do not think that repairs has an advantage over aluminum. You cannot have an effective repair of composite structures, especially when you are thinking of this magnitude boats, which should have most probably class approvals. If you do not have the exact conditions and material, you can easily end up with very poor repairs.

On the other hand, it is rather difficult to have major structural changes when you are building and when you want to have a refit, because mostly bulkheads are parts of the structure.

About to take command of a westport after being captain of a feadship. Perhaps I'll be able to give my views in a week or so.

off-the-shelf or taylor-made?

IMHO, it's not so much a matter of composite versus aluminium, or even of workmanship. The main issue is choosing between a production boat versus a custom boat.

If you are happy with the choices made regarding layout, outfitting, exterior styling, etc. of a production or pre-owned boat, go for it.

But having a boat made for you that fits like a taylor-made suit, is a different experience alltogether. For some owners it's more fun to build a boat than to own one. It is the ultimate in luxury, and something that is just not possible to do in cars and airplanes, which are basically always series products.

That said, I'm not too fond of the series production at Amels and Feadship. If you are going to put in so many accumulated manhours to build a yacht, put in that "little" extra design work for a truly unique yacht. Ok, it takes more time, but even the series (F45 etc.) now have waiting lists, so there goes your timesaving.

Or, to use the slogan from Royal Huisman Shipyards: "Embrace the Spirit of Individuality".

Bruno

Material Strength

Over the past couple years I have started looking into sailing cruisers. Hull composition was the first hurdle I ran into. At first the info I obtained made it seem that steel hulls were the only true option for someone thinking of global travels. As I went on in my search I began to see that composite hulls seem to be the new standard. I still wonder on their strength under heavy seas, but I also have about 90% of my seatime in the bering sea so I subconciously use that as my standard. The other day I remember seeing one with a kevlar composite so I suppose you really do have to get scientific in the matter of each companies composite composition. As far as the molding process being cost effective versus custom built I feel is a no brainer. My personal thought is that anything hand crafted( by a true craftsman) is going to be a better product. Then again I think big business and consumerism are the downfall to society. I just got done reading the post on Warren Buffet so I have to vent a little Nothing would make me happier to own a boat that was built by the hands of skilled laborers I am befriended to than to put money in the pocket of a corporation, but if I am I would rather it be because they had a skilled trade and not a cookie cutter.

Having just completed a 2000 nm passage in a composite boat, I now have an idea of what is good and what is not.
It's not so easy for me to compare with steel as all the steel boats I have run have been over 25 years old, whereas this composite yacht is only 7 years old. But I can now say I have no problem with composite..... I would buy one.

It is very interesting that the next generation of Boeing airliners - specifically, the Dreamliner - are composite aircraft. From what I have read, the Dreamliner is setting a record for "selling ahead". And the prospective purchasers are very savvy about fleet life, durability, lifetime maintenance, and safety.

Cessna has recently been profiling a next generation small, single engine airplane, which is obviously composite-built, although they are being mighty shy about the details.

The obvious point is that composite technology is now mature, and proven, and demonstrably more effective than metal boats.

Yes, it is still cheaper to weld up a tanker out of iron, or a pleasure boat from aluminum.

However, in terms of electrolysis, metal fatigue, and structural durability, composites now beat metal boats (or airliners) hands down.

Ask Boeing.

My .02 cents.

jsi

Thanks for the post

You pretty much took care of my issues on this one. Do you happen to know any sights where one can get info/stats on strength of materials.

Thanks again

These guys can tell you a lot, some of it is on the site or can be downloaded; http://www.diabgroup.com/

ASTM


jsi

If I wanted to compare two composite hulls, I would ask from the Shipyard the Aproved by the Classification Society Lamination Drawing and Structural Plan. In the aforesaid plans somebody can find all the detailed info regarding the strenght and quality of the lamination at least in theory. If this was not enough I would use firstly non destructive methods to exam the lamination quality by using I.R thermography. If still I wanted to go further I would follow destructive methods.

But apart of the above a future owner should see the place where the lamination is taking place (is it well protected from the weather conditions? do they control the humidity? do they control the temperature?- I have seen many italian shipyards to laminate with nearly zero degrees or with humidity more than 70%)

Another aspect is the type of the resins are used (polyester? (if yes which class?)- vinylester?- epoxy resins?

Another aspect are the resin reinforcement materials which can be either glass or kevlar or carbon fibers