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CAT talks of moving out of Peoria, IL because of increased taxes

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Capt J, Mar 26, 2011.

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  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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  2. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    Illinois doesn't need private business anyway ... they need more government and those great government jobs! Just listen to the progressive democrats AND progressive republicans who borrow 40 cents of every dollar they spend.

    I cannot wait to throw another round of these loser politicians out of office. I, however, like Maryland, have no hope for Illinois.

    If I were CAT, I would move out of Illinois, if not out of the USA altogether.

    The USA ... Land of burdensome regulation, taxes, frivolous lawsuits, unions and political corruption. I now have more staff members outside of the USA than inside. Good thing. I hear the U.S. Supreme court just made it easier for employees to sue their employer in a couple of areas. It's only getting more enticing to get the jobs the heck out of the USA.

    Sometimes, losing something great is the very best lesson. I'm hoping the citizens of the USA will wake up and demand a balanced budget amendment along with GAAP accounting for the U.S. Government before we lose it all.
  3. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    It won't take long before someone here points to the recent news of GE "not paying taxes" on $4 billion profit.

    Even if the profit is accounted for without any corporate income tax liability, employers still pay a ****load of payroll taxes, both to the federal government and to the states where they have employees.

    In the case of Caterpillar think not only of the lost jobs but also the state payroll taxes for 23,000 employees.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The democrats don't understand that they need to cut their overzealous spending, not increase taxes during a recession to pay for their waste.

    "The problem with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money" Margarat Thatcher.
  5. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Yep, that quote is a favorite of mine. And we're there now.
  6. PropBet

    PropBet Senior Member

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    Without getting into the Democrat v. Republican debate, it's an interesting spot that they've been put in due to the decisions of the (and I use the term loosely) "elected leaders". I do support CAT's position on this very much. There are states that we simply won't do business in, be it investing in real estate, other projects, companies, or otherwise simply because of the taxation and insanity that follows. Once you sit down with the tax attorney and the accountant, it's very easy to identify those states that are business friendly, and those that really put the thorns in your sides.

    I support CAT in their position of looking forward for the best path for the company. Even if that means a rough road of relocating their business to another state.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see them move to Texas.
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Rumor has it Crawfordsville, IN where they already have a presence.
  8. PropBet

    PropBet Senior Member

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    Crafordsville, or Lafayette? Not familiar with the facility in Crafordsville. I know that have a fairly large plant in Lafayette.

    Indiana keeps them in the rust belt!
  9. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    I want to remind you that they both do it. Obama is hardly worse than progressive republican's Bush1 or Bush2.

    Overspending is the issue ... republicans just do it based on different principals and a different set of friends in private business.

    Kind of like ... hmm ... are we going to give it all away to GE or Halliburton? Let's go to the poles like idiots and decide.

    Rand Paul and the Tea Party have a good thing going and might just save the USA.
  10. travler

    travler Senior Member

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    i don't think it matters what party is in control there are to any self sentered people in power and they don't understand or care about the consiquince in volved as long as they get what they want , you don't want to be a polition you just want too own the right ones

    just a thought travler
  11. PropBet

    PropBet Senior Member

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    You seem to have an insatiable appetite to discuss politics in this instance and whom or... rather why each party is as dead wrong as they are.

    I was kindly (by kindly, I mean keeping the lid on the flame-throwing internet argument) saying I support CAT for their decision based on the conditions which have been presented to them. Not by which party, not why, but because.

    You want to make a statement? Move a multi-billion dollar company that employs 20,000+ people out of the state. That's a political statement. That hits them where it hurts. Nobody reads the picket signs. Nobody listens to the bullhorn. The crowds of protests on the front steps merely blend into the landscape until the next sensational news story crops up. The buck stops when the moving trucks arrive.

    If you wish to argue Dem. V. Rep., let's do so. Pick your forum, as YF is not the place.

    Cheers-
  12. colintraveller

    colintraveller Senior Member

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    Offcourse people's fears will be bricking it .. but when you look at the CEO's move by publicy doing this ..

    He is simply playing a shrewd move which can work for him or against him like what numerous sports stars do ..

    claim they are unhappy etc etc blah and then end up being the highest paid player in the squad .

    And how much pre tax profit did Cat make last year ?? and how much of that was re invested
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Actually he's arguing tea party. Those folks seem to have a real hard time observing protocol. So let me add a ditto.
    Back on topic, that's a very expensive statement when you start talking about set up, retooling, hiring and training new people. Glad I don't own stock in Cat these days. The smart municipality would attract them, and then slap taxes all over them while they're getting up to speed.
  14. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    That's an interesting perspective. And a popular one among government bureaucrats. They can't help themselves. They just don't how to stop killing jobs. Here's some scuttlebutt on how well that philosophy has worked so far:

    As of December 31, 2009, Caterpillar employed 93,813 persons of whom 50,562 are located outside the United States. Current employment figures represent a decline of 17,900 employees compared the third quarter of 2008. Due to the restructuring of business operations which began in the 1990s, there are 20,000 fewer union jobs in the Peoria, Illinois area while employment outside the U.S. has increased.

    And after what the unions did to them throughout the 1990's I wouldn't blame them if they moved the whole company offshore.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    They can move to Mexico if they don't mind buying armoured cars for their execs. In my book, good riddance to any company that thinks the residential tax payers should subsidize them. If they won't pay their fair share to support the communities where they're located in, to hell with 'em. Somehow the country and the states will survive. Maybe by slapping them silly with tarriffs if they want to sell their products here.
  16. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Really? ...Umm, how?

    I was going to walk my dog, but instead I think I'll wait for your answer 'cause it's gonna have to be pretty incredible.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    It's a policy I adopted early in my personal life and it's served me well. Threaten me and I'll destroy you or let you destroy yourself. Let them go where they'll have to pay bribes and higher security costs instead of taxes and wonder every day if their company will be taken over by their new benefactors. Let them also deal with an unskilled workforce, retooling and training costs and face losing the American market. I'm sure Volvo and a few other companies will be happy to take over their customers here. They don't want to help the American people so who cares if they leave. We're a very big market to lose, and a very resilient country. Wonder how the CEO's wife will enjoy living in ........
  18. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Did not realize all cat dealerships were closing, as well?! :D
  19. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Cat Moving

    The product will still be sold into this market regardless....

    As with politicians, there are those who cannot grasp the concept of....".dollar bills like to feel safe in order to grow"

    It is that simple, threaten a dollar and it will go and look for a friendly place to grow.

    Now, you and moan and groan about ceo's and the like being heartless and don't care about employees etc....the ceo's job is to grow the shareholders dollars and keep them safe so they they can create other dollars.. SEE ..????

    Now, it is also up to consumers to decide if those ceo's etc are making good products that have good value, if not, consumers do not buy and the market forces work...unless the Government steps in and subsidizes the bad Company with your hard earned dollars, I think you like that better....
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Guess that depends on how expensive we make it for Cats to be imported. They're not the only player in the game. As you can tell I don't play politics well, or at least not nicely. Communities in this country need companies that will step up to support them and their citizens. If your company just wants to take, then do it elsewhere.
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