Click for Delta Click for JetForums Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Burger Click for Mulder

CAT 3412 won't throttle up?

Discussion in 'Engines' started by Danvilletim, Oct 15, 2018.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Ok, boat pulled away from the dock for a photoshoot and the port engine won't run up into RPMs. Two days ago we ran to Miami and back and boat did great. We did have an alarm on the engine temp which hit 210... vs the starboard that would run at 190. We back off and engine cooled down within seconds...I don't know if this is related or not?

    Any ideas what to try?
  2. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,011
    Location:
    Cairo - Egypt
    I do not believe the overheating issue is related to the port engine not revving up. The overheating issue is most likely a result of a partially clogged heat exchanger which will require a chemical flush. What is the max. rpm achieved on the port engine? Is there a permanent alarm being displayed on the port engine instruments which could be forcing the engine into protection or emercency mode? If no permanent alarms are present and your port engine is only reaching a lower rpm than usual and is unable to rev past it, then I would suspect a fuel supply problem or blocked fuel filters.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,432
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    What throttle control do you have? Not running, key on, push the throttle to WOT, make sure the governor moves to WOT.

    Had a boat with B+ issues with old mathers controls doing the same thing.
  4. captainwjm

    captainwjm Senior member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    296
    Location:
    Miami, FL, Cape Elizabeth, ME
    This is my guess. Probably need a Cat guy to clear the computer code.
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,432
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    3412s did not have that fancy of a computer.
    You still have not explained what rpm you are getting.
    Nor what controls you have.
  6. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    I flew back yesterday so Im off the boat.. They were able to determine (I think) that is was the Kobalt electronic controls. Either the CPU or a card in the CPU unit. I'm a little surprised that they couldn't determine that at the engine, but I wasn't there. And things always seem a lot easier to fix when viewing the problem from 3,000 miles away :).

    It was a bummer because we were going to do a very cool drone video that will have to wait for a couple weeks.

    I guess its better that the control screwed up by not letting it rev vs flooring it WOT as the left the dock, but still concerning.
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,544
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    3412 or 3412E?

    210 is way too high. What RPM were you running. Even 190 is a bit high depending on RPM. How about the gear temps?

    That shouldnt prevent the engine from reving up. Does it just stay at idle? How about in neutral, will it rev up? Sound like a control issue
  8. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Probably only 900 -1100.......RPM... So thats another issue to tackle. These are 1997 Engines so not the 3412E.. They do have an electronic governor and you can still hook up a laptop ....but you don't get nearly the info you would want as a 3412E.

    I'm Considering the chemical flush but would rather find someone in Ft Lauderdale to do it. I know this will help the heat exchanger but I don't know if there is a separate oil/gear cooler.

    How can you determine the heater exchanger is the issue of the overheat? Take off the end caps?
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,432
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Ah, Kobelt controls. No experience there.
    But I think I was close.
    Please keep us up as I'd like to learn more about these fancy controllers.

    Also, My past with 3412s with ZF clutches, a side line after the Sherwood pump goes off to cool an internal H/E.
    It's a small hose (1/2"?). I have back flushed these with dock water. Some trash did come out.
    The later 3412s I've been with had the fancy stacked plate H/Es, If your is the round monster, the end caps offer a good inspection option.
    I think rather large rods that may be easy to clear if they have any restrictions.
    You just may find one end cap full of trash that a chemical cleaning may not clear anyway (old impeller bits, plastic, sediment and grass goo).
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,544
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    I m familiar with the 3412Es not the ealier ones. The 3412Es have a gear cooler on the ZF. Typically the first symptom of an impeller issues was always the gear running 20 degrees warmer at idle speed. Go back at 1000 or higher and the gear temp would come back down.

    The 3412Es have fuel cooler BEFORE the raw water pump. Anything making thru the strainers ends up trapped at the fuel cooler inlet. They need cleaning every once in a while. Not sure if this applies to the earlier 3412

    How old are the impellers?

    I d suggest you call southshore diesel. They really in miami but also cover Very reasonable and quality work. Marcello, the owner, has been doing my cat work for 10 years. He also surveyed the Lazzara I run (C32s). They just did impellers and service on ours. Good guy

    Stay away from pantropic.
  11. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    Thanks Ralph... I have head about this other pump... Size of a beer can? Someone else recommended looking at this and that they were relatively cheap to replace. Is this just to cool the transmission or does it effect the overall Engine Temp?
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,432
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Other pump?
    Other HE (heat Exchanger) for the ZF clutches. I remember internal in the ZF clutch.
    Off of same main engine Sherwood (Shurfail) raw water pump.
    You may have a power steering pump the size of a beer can somewhere.

    I forget where the fuel cooler is. Think Pascal is on that if it's a multi tube Pack.

    Heed Pascal comment; "Stay away from pantropic".
    They have already bent over two of our customers.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  13. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,011
    Location:
    Cairo - Egypt
    Remove the engine sea water pump impeller and carry out the chemical flush from the sea water inlet hose pipe just after the strainer. You will be flushing the complete sea water cooling system which also includes the transmission cooling system.

    If you remove the heat exchanger end cap you will be able to see the extent of blockage.
  14. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,184
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    Not coming up to RPM:
    Could this be as simple as a fuel restriction in the supply side of things? Filters, Fuel line etc. I had a similar problem with a large Generator yrs. ago that after going through the motors mounted fuel supply systems we found our beautiful Aeroquip supply line full of algae from the day tank to the suction side of the Racor. Gen wouldn't turn more than 1000 RPM's till cleared .
  15. captainwjm

    captainwjm Senior member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    296
    Location:
    Miami, FL, Cape Elizabeth, ME
    Agreed
  16. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    isleton, ca
    It was Kobalt electronic controls. New 'card' going in on Thurs plus recalibration.
  17. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,184
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    That's good news. When you said "Kobelt" my mind automatically thought Pneumatic controls. Didn't know that they were a player in the electronic controls field.
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,432
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    I can not find Kobalt controls anywhere. Nothing on the web. Never operated such an gizmo.
    We may have an auto spell check kicking in on somebody's pad or kbd.
    Not knowing anything about them, I have operated Kobelt controls of many types. All were very fine.
    Never worked on them at all.

    Of course, please keep us up on the fix and suspect failure cause.

    I hope you had a good time in Miami / K B.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,528
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    They were and they're old, antiquated, dangerous junk that should be replaced. When they hiccup they stay at whatever throttle and gear setting they were at. They don't like voltage spikes or drops either. They still sell them, but haven't seen them on a boat in a million years. Not sure if they've fixed their inherent problems, but the current control heads look just like they did in the 1980's. I've dealt with them in the past, but the ones that took the cake were shraeder bellows electronic air operated controls of which they only made 24 sets of, and I was blessed to manage a yacht that had one of those sets.

    The shraeder bellows was the only 24 volt system on the boat (58' Striker) and it had 2 waverunner batteries, with it's own charger that plugged into a GFCI 120 volt outlet in the engine room. The wires going to each station were the size of telephone wires.....tiny gauge. You then needed a generator, and air compressor running so the solenoids would shift and give rpm's. Lose any 1 of those and you were up a creek but at least in neutral,zero throttle.
  20. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,184
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    Good grief, that sounds like a bit much for what should be a bullet proof system. Kolbelt pneumatic controls are pretty reliable as long as you take care of your compressed air system aboard and place a commercial dryer evaporator in line before the receiver. I'm beginning to come to Ralphs conclusions here of just give me a push pull Panish system. I priced out a two station electronic control system for a customer two yrs ago and was surprised by the cost. Between Z.F. Glendenning & one other I couldn't find anything south of $25,000 complete .