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Cat 3412-1200HP: no response from ECM

Discussion in 'Engines' started by xF_PP, Aug 11, 2013.

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  1. xF_PP, Aug 11, 2013
    #1
    xF_PP

    xF_PP New Member

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    I'm in the process of buying a boat with two 3412-1200 DITA from 1994 (Ser.no. 35K00231 and 35K00232). The boat hasn't been running for more than 2 years.
    Up to now we only tested idling up to 1.800rpm. The engines run quiet, no smoke etc. Before the sea trial we ordered a inspection from a Cat dealer.
    Last Friday I had the Cat mechanics onboard to check the engines and prepare the sea trial.
    They were able to get a PC-connection to the starboard engine but not to the port - the 3412 gave no response to their Laptop.

    They assume the external chip or the ECM of the port engine might be dead.
    Any ideas?
  2. Capt Ralph, Aug 11, 2013
    #2
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I would hope the Cat techs checked the harness and connects to the module.
    I don't think they are serviceable modules. But IMO, it's the connect that usually has the problem.
    Unless somebody is real tight with Cat, you probably will not get a loaner module for sea trial.
    The fair (maybe good) news, The E modules probably have not had any updates in years. If the Stb main has a later software rev level, it could be assumed the port software level is up also (unless this com port has been dead a real long time. This failure does not mean the ECM can not run the engine, just can't talk out it's (RS485?) com port.
    Lean on the broker a little, Maybe the seller can offer a little help.
    Good luck, Keep us up.
    ,rc
  3. RER, Aug 11, 2013
    #3
    RER

    RER Senior Member

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    So, the CAT mechanics and the CAT dealer that you paid to inspect the motors ...what happened to them?
  4. xF_PP, Aug 12, 2013
    #4
    xF_PP

    xF_PP New Member

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    They left the yacht with the task to check with Caterpillar whether they can change the Chip from stb to port. Usually the ser.no. is coded to the chip.
    They told me the software is not in the ECM, it's an external chip which can be changed/need to be changed for update. Only the newer engines can be updated by upload.
    Right now I'm waiting for their response.
  5. CatTech, Aug 12, 2013
    #5
    CatTech

    CatTech New Member

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    35K is not a good serial number I am assuming it is 3JK. I have seen a lack of communication with the ECM before with no other symptoms present. What displays are at the helm? Are they CAT displays? If so most likely they are EMS panels. Do these function correctly? They use the same data connection as CAT ET.
    The chip can be swapped from engine to engine for testing. But I doubt the chip is the cause of lack of communication with CAT ET.
  6. Capt Ralph, Aug 12, 2013
    #6
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Swapping old electronic do-dads around could induce problems. If the Stb is running and has comms, I recommend not to touch it. On the other hand, it's not your boat yet. If da Cat guys are trying to do something, let them suggest the next move or further trouble shoot.

    Are you having good communications with the broker & seller? It's their tab rite?
  7. xF_PP, Aug 13, 2013
    #7
    xF_PP

    xF_PP New Member

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    @CatTech:
    3JK is correct
    What do you mean "with no other symptoms present"?
    Helm has Pershing instrumentation only - on top of the engines are working Cat instruments

    @rcrapps:
    good communication with the broker, zero with the owner. They had a none Cat-mechanic working on the boat until 2011, but I don't trust in. He told me they spent 40k in parts - no invoices. The Cat guys can't believe...
    Today I told them not to waste my time before they have comm to the engines.
  8. Capt Ralph, Aug 13, 2013
    #8
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    $40000 and no receipts? Any logs, updated manuals, ledgers, notes or completed work orders?.

    Did the serial numbers come up with any Cat service history?

  9. CatTech, Aug 14, 2013
    #9
    CatTech

    CatTech New Member

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    No other symptoms present means, Everything else functions as designed. The data link used to communicate with the ECM can fail but everything else works fine. The cat gauges on the engine are not probably not electronic but are mechanical gauges, these are the most dependable of all.

    The loss of communication with the ECM can go unnoticed in an installation like you are describing since the data link is not used for displays. They can swap ECM's from port to starboard and check for communication again. This will isolate if it is a harness or ECM issue.

    The ECM's have a eprom in them which designates HP ratings. I have not seen this eprom cause loss of communication in 12 years of CAT experience.I have seen the ECM fail losing the ability to transmit this data quite often. The data link provides configuration ability of installed sensors, monitoring of electronic engine sensors, aids in the trouble shooting of electronic issues.

    This engine is technically a hybrid electronic/mechanical one, using the ECM to monitor and control a mechanical engine with the use of a servo and position sensor that monitors and moves a mechanical fuel rack.

    The ecm is not that expensive and they should have no problem determining if it needs replacement and repairing the problem if they want to close this deal.