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Can a DC momentary switch be used for ac power?

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Capt J, Oct 6, 2010.

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  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I'm looking to put a safety switch for the fiberglass lid that covers the grill in for a small electric barbeque. The barbeque is 220 volts and on a 15amp breaker. Can I use something like the Cole Hersee momentary push button switch that is rated for 35amps at 12v dc, with ac current?
  2. CatTech

    CatTech New Member

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  3. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Sounds like the kind of switch that Princess stovetops use; maybe one of their parts suppliers can help you.
  4. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Most switches are rated for AC and DC. If the switch is not properly rated for the application then Do Not use it. If it could handle 220 volts and 15 amps Cole would rate it for that.
  5. captain_jack

    captain_jack New Member

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    Watts are watts, it doesnt matter if its AC or DC.
    Switches and circuit breakers don't care, its all the same to them.

    Volts X Amps = Watts

    Your momentary switch is rated with a continuous rating of 35 amps of current @ 12 volts.

    12v X 35a = 420 watts of continous power, above that, the switch may fail.

    Your barby runs 220 volt current, and is limited by a 15 amp breaker.
    If the barby actually draws 15 amps of current, it would blow the breaker, so we have to assume it uses less current than this, on a continuous basis.

    Electric grill elements are not really efficient, it would probably draw 10 amps continuous when its fully heated.

    220 X 10 = 2200 watts. Far more than your momentary switch is rated for.

    Find a switch rated for 3000 watts and you should be safe.
  6. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Ah yes, straight from the "Boy Electrician's How to Start Fires Without Matches" handbook.

    In the real world there are little things like power factor, inductive vs resistive loads, arc quenching, zero crossing that mean using an ac wall switch on a DC circuit of the same voltage to control the same light bulb for instance is a promise that a fire will start as the result of an arc fault in very short order.

    Please add the discussion on water fog fire suppression to the back of that handbook.

    It's hard to get more efficient than a purely resistive load. You might argue the "efficiency" of the grill as a cooking device but if that thing has a 1kW resistive heating element that is precisely how much power it will consume. It has a power factor of 1, unity, it is a textbook electrical device, a resistive load.

    And as long as I am here, is that Cole Hersee a single pole switch?
  7. TESSllc

    TESSllc New Member

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    I dont think i have ever seen a switch that is rated in Watts? Watts is power consumed, and is determined by the voltage multiplied by amps as you stated. Switches come rated for a maximum voltage and current.

    So to restate what you said, Amps are Amps but the difference as far as switch ratings go is switches rated for DC have beefier contacts suited for higher arc patterns when the contacts open providing longer life and less pitting by having more contact surface.

    The most important thing is to make sure the switch is rated for the proper voltage as the current rating of your cole hersee is ok. Remember a circuit breaker is there to protect the cable not the equipment.

    I am sure you can find a nice limit switch similar to the on Cat tech recommended at the local Grainger store. Stay away from plastic or bakolite housing so it wont melt during or after using the BBQ.

    Not to be a stinker Captn Jack, but when the heater is fully heated it probably draws no watts because the thermostat turned it off. It will consume the most power when first turned on and heating up.

    What i have done in the past is installed a higher rated contactor under or close to the BBQ. Use a small 220/24 volt transformer, using the 24V thru the safety switch to operate the coil of the contactor. I just dont like the idea of having that high voltage on the lid is all. This is a little more complicated and expensive jub but much safer to have the BBQ current flowing thru a contactor then the safety switch!! Besides you can use a much smaller wire as the coil consumes milliamps.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    got to love how a fairly simple question never fail to turn into a major techinical debate!

    " Stay away from plastic or bakolite housing so it wont melt during or after using the BBQ. Not to be a stinker Captn Jack, but when the heater is fully heated it probably draws no watts because the thermostat turned it off. It will consume the most power when first turned on and heating up."

    I use a 220v grill quite a lot and most of the time the heating element is on, unless you are slow cooking something. So you ve got to assume that the thing may be on and drawing full amp for 30 minutes or more...

    properly installed the switch should never get hot! that would be a lousy installation... install the switch under the grill, in the cabinet so it stays dry and cool and jsut run a rod so that the lid presses the rod and triggers the switch when closed.

    i like simple set ups... forget coils, relays, extra wires ...

    back to the original question, i woudl not use that swtich, get something with the proper rating
  9. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Rube Goldberg ideas often lead to this sort of thing.

    Sometimes there are very good reasons for separating control ciruits from power circuits on metal appliances used outside by people with bare feet in wet environments.

    Has no one considered that using a combustible lid on a barbecue is a really bad idea to begin with?
  10. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I would see that as a design feature, the power goes off so the user shuts the lid and can finish his cooking before the Fire Brigade arrives.:D

    Personally I like the Tess answer, it also comes from a very experienced and well respected Marine Electrician.