C32 Engine life and rebuild cost

Hi,

Call a couple of dealers or authorized agents and ask

Hi,

CAT uses Fuel burnt and hours run.

Is this manual any help?

http://safety.cat.com/cda/files/891374/7/C32+Marine+Engine+(RNC)+-+Maintenance+Intervals.pdf

10,000 hours.....120,000 gallons top end overhaul, 200,000 gallons major overhaul. See page 103 for E rating over haul specs

http://safety.cat.com/cda/files/538761/7/C32

On a pleasureboat you will hit the hours long before you hit the fuel consumed rebuild spec.

Is it the dark pink or the light pink coolant? The dark pink should be changed as scheduled. They make test strips to test it.....but I'd just visual and smell it.

Hi,

A single one off oil sample will only tell you what is going on in the oil at that exact moment of the sample.

If you don't know how much time is on the oil or how much has been added since it was last changed the results accuracy is affected.

There are coolant test kits for both the DEAC and ELC coolant systems.

If this is a first time or one off I would suggest getting it done professionally as this will tell you a lot more than the aforementioned look and smell test.

If you find the coolant concentration is low this can lead to further problems particularly with the liners around the O Ring grooves

As K1W1 said a single oil sample does not provide all the information you want. An oil sample history is a better source of the health of the engine. Watching for a trend upward on wear items and contaminates.

A maintenance/repair log is a valuable source of information documented with invoices.

Don't be afraid of higher engine hour vessels. If the owner had the fuel to burn chances are he also has the finances to maintain and repair the vessel properly.

Cannot stress this enough ALWAYS have a professional survey done on the engines and vessel. The cost of this service will be offset by his findings during final price negotiations. Samples of ALL the fluids should be taken by any competent surveyor.

As far as when overhauls are due Yes CAT does supply engine hour/fuel burn recommendations, as well as using oil sample results and oil consumption. In the pleasure craft segment I find that another component IE: aftercooler,injector, cooling system is the cause of the need for an overhaul more often than normal operating hours.

The cost can vary greatly depending on what the visual inspection discovers during the repair. Be careful comparing estimates for an overhaul as you will get some that are quoting the basics to others that will cover all possible scenarios.
There is a CAT certified rebuild which will basically reset your warranty from CAT back to as new levels. CAT also provides an extended warranty program to give you some peace of mind.

Did I mention that a complete engine and vessel survey is always a good idea??

CatTech, I agree with your philosophy about high hour engines. I bought a '90 54' Bertram with 2400 hours on 12v92s. Of course I knew this history of the boat, my buddy was the owner. I just baby the engines like he did and all is good. I run them @1800rpm which is about 22 knots. Fast enough for me. No smoke and criuse faster than I did in my old boat, 50 Hatt w/ 8v92s.

I saw one pair go almost 6,000hrs and the owner did very little in maintanence besides oil changes and impellors. On another boat a 1991 58' Striker, it had 8 sets of major overhauls by 2004. Literally every 500-1000hrs. Another yacht a well kept 54' Hatteras with DDEC's only went 950hrs between majors....no ryhme or reason......I think a heavy boat that has changing load factors in a sea really shortens their life.....well along with an overheat or bad injector etc.

Or maybe it had something to do with the "heavy" hand that was pushing those throttle levers?

No, the 54' Hatt computer on the DDEC said it was run otherwise...Most all of the hours were below 80% load. .it blew an engine on survey seatrial with 1952 hours on them. There was reciepts for major overhauls at 972 hours also because one grenaded. The Striker had the same owner from 1991-2004 and it wasn't pushed hard either. It had J+T's with big turbo's and 160 lph injectors.

The one that went 6,000 hours was a 1987 63' Ocean SF that was overpropped and towed a 35' Marlago at cruise most of the time. Same owner from 1988-2009. In 1988 it cruised at 30 knots.....by 1990 it cruised at 26 knots, by 1998 it cruised at 24.5 knots and stayed there for the duration......We cut 3" pitch off of the props when it was majored.....I took care of that one from the early 90's to 2009. They never did run like they used to after the majors..... they ran ok, but not as crisp and well as before, for whatever reason. The owner accumulated so many spare parts and personal stuff over the years that the waterline came up 4" when he took all of his stuff off, which filled a 10'x24' storage locker from floor to ceiling.....LOL

That may not tell the whole story, as a DD or CAT run at a significant amount or majority of time between 60 - 80% LOAD would surely represent a "Heavy" throttle hand for a SF application, especially with the highest (pleasurecraft) rating for a given engine model..

The average load over the time map would be a better indicator, it should be well under 50% Average Load, otherwise the throttle man was a factor

Look at the CAT E Rating for Pleasure Craft:

Rating (High Performance)
Typical applications: For vessels operating at rated load
and rated speed up to 8% of the time (up to 30% load
factor). Typical applications could include but are not
limited to vessels such as pleasure craft, harbor patrol
boats, harbor master boats, some fishing or patrol boats.
Typical operation ranges from 250 to 1000 hours per year......

The spec you are referring to Rated load and Rated speed, is Wide Open Throttle. I don't know of anyone the runs a Sportfish at WOT, hardly ever.

If you re-read the CAT info, they are limiting WOT operation to no more than 8% of the operating time. In a money/tournament situation, I have seen plenty of SF's running on the pins far exceeding this amount for various reasons.

The 30% Load Factor has already been addressed "ad nauseum" on this forum.

DDEC Data (and others engine mfg's) is great, but the interpretation of it is better left to the technicians who can provide a time/history output that gives a better picture of how the vessel was actually operated.

Do you fish a lot of tournaments? Because every tournament I've ever run a SF in or fished in, every boat ran at normal cruise speed 80% to get out to the fishing. If you ran at 100% load, it would cut your range far too much. The ONLY time I've seen a SF run 100% load in a tournament is if you caught a big fish and the fight went longer and you were late to get back. The vast majority of sportfish in the tournament (90+ % of them) don't have enough fish on board to even worry about getting back in time. LOL Like when the Gina Lisa won the Mid Atlantic 500 the first time. I worked on the owners last boat, the 75' SF. The other thing is most SF that even fish the entire tournament circuit split their time between trolling at idle speeds, running at cruise to and from all of the tournaments. I've never seen a chart on any SF where it was run above 90% load more than 2% of it's life. Also, an hour at 100% on most SF is 40+ knots, that's pretty far to fish in most places.

The DDEC or CAT or MAN info is easy for anyone to read......it literally says this % of running time at idle, this % of running time at 20-30% load, this % of running time at 70-80% load, 80-85% load, 85-90% load 90-95%, 95-100%.

Fact is, there were A LOT of blocks in the 12v92 era that left the factory with very borderline blocks. Many of them had bores that were on the outer edge of DD's acceptable clearances. Many of them also had egg shaped bores, but were still within spec. If these engines were'nt line bored and such when they grenaded the first time, which most weren't because very few tended to be taken out of the boat for majors, they continued to be 1000hr engines, over and over again. A lot of 12v71's were this way too, but had thicker liners and smaller bores and tended to last without issues. The 92 series were initially designed for as much HP as they could make for the military applications and to be rebuilt every 500-1000hrs by military mechanics in the field that were on the clock full time, and that's why DD went with o-rings. Most 12v92's I've ever dealt with in a SF application anyways were 1000hr engines, if that. Everyone once in a while you got an exceptional set and they went 5000 hours. Every set of 92's of every boat I've ever run has lost 10-20% of it's power after the first 200hrs and had to have the props cut 2-3", majors never brought it back either......

Our Striped Marlin tournaments (2 - 3 per year) are run & gun live bait affairs, with the ability to move and get to the hot spot a premium, as the bite does not last too long and the tourney days are relatively short. WOT is not uncommon.

Like I said, reading the data is one thing, applying it is another. So you have access to the loads, what kind of average load time stamp are you calculating? My point is that even though the average SF has a load factor usually less than 30%,as CAT and other engine manufacturers would like to see, you stated that most of the time on the 54 Hatteras was operated at less than 80%Load. That means absolutely nothing without the time history.

For example, if an owner runs the boat like the following:
1% of time @ 100% Load
5% of time @ 90% Load
25% of time @ 80% Load
10% of time @ 65% Load
5% of time @ 50% Load
45% of time @ 30% Load
9% of time @ Idle

This will give you a calculated Load Factor of 48%, higher than the recommended CAT 'E" Rating. So what does it mean - 96% of the time was at less than or equal to 80% Load? Time Between Overhauls may be reduced/Maintenance intervals may be shortened if this Time History is maintained throughout the life of the engine. Since operation of the vessel is variable, that is why it is easier to base Maintenance/Overhauls on the amount of fuel burnt. So you can get the idea of how a "Heavy" throttle hand can impact the life of an engine.

Maybe it is a South Florida thing, but I have seen the life of the DD 12V 71's and 92's easily exceed your 1000 hour experience out west. I have seen 3000 - 6000 hours, not every once in awhile but in the majority of the cases I have been onboard out here. Maybe it has something to do with the Average Load Profile......

DD was built on the 71 series and World War II, as the military consumption fueled this industry. By the time of the release of the 92 series in 1974, the on-highway fuel consumption for transportation was the main objective for this product release, not military markets.

"Losing power" in the first 200 hours can be attributed to the boat finally be loaded with all of the owners gear, and maybe an optimistic factory propeller sizing in a light load from the builder. I am not surprised that props would have to be cut, one of the reasons that the Veem Interceptors have become so popular as you just have to trade out to a different color interceptor strip.

Today, the DD Factory does produce some select 2-cycle, non-EPA approved series 53/71/92 engines for military markets ONLY.

I don't know about over there, but over here we use big center consoles to fish tournaments if we're doing running and gunning with live bait. A heck of a lot easier to live bait from since you can use the whole side of the boat to fish, faster, and altogether easier. That being said, you don't see hardly any sportfish doing that.

I've seen 12v71's routinely go 5,000-6,000 hours, one set even 10,000 hrs. The 92 series rarely do you see them go that much.

I understand average load, and the graph was on that 54' Hatteras with all of the percentages. Over 50% of the entire running was below 1,000 rpms. It was a light boat also, just a hard top boat. 92 series were still mainly marketed to the military when they were introduced, and 6v92's for bus use after that. They still make 6v92's and 8v92's for military markets. Which DD wouldn't be doing if most of them weren't put into military vehicles to begin with. Even with no weight in the boat, the props still needed to be cut on the ones I've experienced....(boat a few years old and for sale, owner removed all personal items for example).

Anyways, this is a thread on C32's and not 92 series. The OP asked what the lifespan was of E rated engines.....and it's either 10,000 hrs or 200,000 gallons of fuel, whichever comes first..... If you go through 400,000 gallons of fuel between the set, $1.8-2million, the cost of rebuilds would be a drop in the bucket money-wise.