Click for Delta Click for Walker Click for Glendinning Click for Nordhavn Click for Burger

Benetti vs Westport

Discussion in 'Westport Yacht' started by WorldTraveler, May 21, 2018.

  1. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    Hi all! My wife and I were talking last night about traveling less by air and more by water. We currently have a 52' Viking (Up for sale) and a 80' Viking (Which we sportfish on), but they just wouldn't fulfill what we're looking for in a MY used for travel. I have heard amazing things about Westport but the Benetti's look interesting!

    We're based in the Northeast and travel to Florida a lot. We'd like to explore the typical places here on the east coast and islands but then also head over to Europe at some point in time. In terms of crew, we don't need a chef, stewardess or service-related positions since we can cook, make cocktails, clean and do laundry ourselves while on the boat. We would, however, need a captain; I would love to learn how to navigate the boat in the future, though. Other than my wife, I do have a few brother who would come along, so I don't think deckhands would be an issue (We all fish competitively and are familiar with boating). Obviously, though, if needed, a deckhand would be hired (If my wife and I just wanted to go). Between us, we have quite a few kids.

    I try my absolute hardest to buy American made goods, but if the Benetti can compete in terms of quality and reliability, I wouldn't mind looking at them. I have had my eye on the Westport 125 and the Benetti Classic Supreme 132. What are your thoughts on the two?

    We do like outdoor space (Including Beach Clubs) and tender garages. We do not need exotic, rare, breg-worthy finishes, but instead, a well-crafted product. We live by the mentality of having less but of higher quality/workmanship - if that makes sense.

    Thanks so much for your help!
  2. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    Ahh, I forgot about Moonen! I have heard outstanding things about them as well. The Caribbean line looks interestin!.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    In comparing the WP 125 to the B 132, you haven't picked the nearest comparable WP, which is the 130, so you're comparing a smaller, lighter, boat. The B 132 is considerably heavier than the WP 130 even and it's a plodding cruiser as opposed to the WP's which will cruise at 20 knots. Another important difference is draft. The WP 125 is 6'1", the WP 130 is 6'6" and the B 132 is 7'6". The Benetti is more an ocean crossing vessel and does have more range. However, it's a little less suitable to cruising the East Coast.

    Moonen makes some boats that are more comparable to the WP's as well as some comparable to the Benetti. With Moonen vs. WP you get to see aluminum vs fiberglass.

    There are many boats in these sizes and ranges and even specific models available to charter.
  4. captainwjm

    captainwjm Senior member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    296
    Location:
    Miami, FL, Cape Elizabeth, ME
    Bless your heart! I wish I had the money to be thinking as you do. But, I respectfully suggest that your thoughts about buying one of these boats with the idea that you could, in essence, crew them yourself is nuts.
  5. Lenny

    Lenny Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    81
    Location:
    Miami
    Westports very good boats. Benetti's look beautiful but not the best quality. Moonen by far the best of the three. That being said, depends on how you use the boat. If most of the time in a marina, than probably a Westport. If cruising down to the caribbean and big water, than the Moonen. That being said, these are very big boats for owner operator. Would not recommend anything in this size range for owner operator even with family & friends. Remember that your Vikings are great sea boats. Choose wisely if you want to good out in not the best conditions. Also bigger boats require much more work.
  6. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,943
    Location:
    West Coast
    I just don’t understand those that want to spend $20M+ on a yacht but not have any crew.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Any of those boats require a total crew of 7. If you intend to do it with one captain and then you and family doing all the rest, then you might as well just try to get jobs working on yachts. That way the money would be coming in, not going out. There are 7 jobs that are full time when you're cruising. Perhaps the WP125 can be maintained with as few as 5 but I'm not convinced.

    Trying to put some things into perspective. I'd compare housekeeping for the interior to an 8000 sq ft home. I started with saying it has the rooms of a 6000 sq ft home but then add a 30% factor for it being on the water and a lot of open doors and windows.

    That leaves outside maintenance. I'd compare it to the exterior maintenance of the 8000 sq ft home plus 6 cars. Just the wash down after a day of cruising is sizable.

    Now, if you're going to do night cruising, long trips, cruising into ports, you must have someone else capable of relieving the captain and capable of navigating.

    That gets us to engine and equipment maintenance. On a boat that size, a full time job. Let's take the least of the boats, the WP 125. You have two 2600 hp engines, two 4 cylinder Lugger 80 kw engines, 2 watermakers, water, fuel and holding tanks, 7 or 8 toilets and same number of showers, a hot tub, 7 or 8 televisions, a Wifi system, a system of cameras and security, 2 radars, 2 plotters, night vision, sonar, and other equipment. Wiring and plumbing throughout. The engineering side is definitely a full time task.

    I'm going to try to compare to the 80' Viking. A 130' WP is about 3 times the amount of boat to take care of. I get to that through displacement and tonnage as they're more reflective of the size difference than 130/80 is. While some things, like the engines, are pretty equivalent, other things are totally different. Part also is that you'll likely have more people aboard the 130, all requiring support. Some things are physically more demanding too, even while seeming the same. One simple example is putting fenders out. More of them and larger.

    Yes, you can do many of the crew jobs or have your kids or brothers do them. But then you aren't cruising as owners and guests, you're crewing.
  8. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    20,353
    Location:
    South Florida
    I would take Moonen off your list. Too many reports of the yard not standing behind their products. One guy even built a dedicated website called "MoonenHell" to inform others;

    http://www.moonengame.com/why.html

    One of our sr. members became a managing partner in Moonen, built two boats with them, then sold the boats and his interests in the company. I don't know the specifics, but if you're going to build an alloy boat in that range, I would go to Burger. Good people, world-class craftsmen and financially solvent. It will also be more convenient for you to visit the yard and follow the build.

    In that size range, I would not consider a Benetti. Their semi-production range has been historically problematic and aspects of the organization appear to be in disarray. For a composite build in that size range, Westport hands down!
  9. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    As an owner of a Westport, I try not to show excessive prejudice toward them although I feel that one can't find a better company to deal with. Moonen was at one time on a list of builders I'd consider, but the changes in ownership and management led me to a lot of uncertainty about their future. Benetti is well...Benetti, for better or worse.

    As to Burger, I'm anxious to see new builds from them. I have some concerns as they attempt to build new styles. I'd love to hear reports on Northland and love to see them build something from their new designs. I do find their 48 Cruiser most interesting. I also think of them as good people I'd like dealing with and really only know of one project that didn't go as well and it had some extreme requirements that they were not experienced with which led to delays. We did charter Top Times in 2013, a boat you reviewed in 2004. While we're not expedition yacht types, the workmanship on that boat was superb. If Burger can achieve that quality today and match it with their new styling and the faster boats they've designed, definitely worth considering.

    For a production fiberglass yacht in the 112-164' range there remains one unchallenged leader, Westport.
  10. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,943
    Location:
    West Coast
    On an alloy side, you could also look at Mulder yacht or Wim Van Der Valk if you want more Euro styling.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    This. Bennettis are simply an azimut on steroids with the same build quality and same issues as azimut.

    You need a crew of 6 minimum on that size, regardless if you like camping while yachting. You need a captain, mate, deckhand, stew and a chef.......an engineer as well.
  12. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,988
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    Olderboater has that right, when comparing the two displacement varies by the cube (raised by the the third) 3 times the boat, effort and cost.
  13. Lenny

    Lenny Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    81
    Location:
    Miami
    I have been on a few Moonen used yachts at boat shows. Spoke with the yard a few years ago about building one in the 110 to 120 ft range. Did not buy anything. I recommended the Moonen in my above response. I have never owned one and never spoke to a Captain that ran one. After doing a little research online tonight, thanks to this Forum, and the internet, I withdraw what I said above. Not smart to speak when you have no real first hand knowledge.
  14. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    Hi! To be completely honest, I was a poor kid raised by a single mother growing up, and - in my opinion - because of this, it keeps me grounded. Though my family genes seem to be cut short, I still find time to clean my house, do my own laundry and cook my own food. Could I hire a chef? Sure. Could I hire a cleaning service? Sure. But to me, there is just something that I don't want to lose touch with.

    Also, to be clear in regards to being a deckhand: I actually enjoy this kind of stuff. The company I work for is a blue collar company but I have been fortunate to take on a white collar position (No more killing myself).

    I remember the day when I could finally afford a car - seventeen going onto eighteen. I drove 80 miles away to buy a used BMW M3 for $5,000...which was a stickshift. Let me tell you, I jumped in feet first and that ride home - without previous manual experience - was quite the drive. Stall. Stall. Stall. I mention this because I will not buy said boat and crew it right away. Obviously there is a learning curve. To this day I still work with my hands (When I get bored), take apart motors / trucks, service my cars, so on and so forth. I just really enjoy staying busy and feeling accomplished.

    With all due respect to the members here (If you're one of them :p), I try REALLY hard not to be one of those 'rich buttholes' that we have all come across in our lives. I hate that. I personally love flying under the radar and have no problem being judged (Can't tell you how many salespeople I go through until I find someone willing to help). So, there you have it!
  15. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    This is where it gets interesting. I have a handful of people who perform routine cleaning and service on most of my toys (When I can't get around to it). Issue is, they're here in the northeast. If the boat is elsewhere, that's something I would have to figure out. Regardless, there will be a 'crew' who will maintain the boat. I have extremely high standards, and because I work hard [and have sacrificed a lot] for what I have, I want my items to be in the best condition. When I mentioned service-related crew, I meant someone cooking me dinner, serving me drinks, cleaning my bathroom, folding my clothes, etc.

    My ideal situation is walking onto a pristine boat at the docks and taking it out to sea. Once underway, I no longer need someone to follow behind me to clean up. Once we get back to dock from our trip, I want the boat maintained/cleaned. Does that make more sense? I totally get what you're saying, though, regarding the windows being open, etc. I guess it's something that I have yet to have an issue with (albeit, the Viking is not an 'open window/door' kind of boat). Regardless, that's a really good point you made. Thank you!

    I currently have the MTU 16V2000 M96L's and know my way around them pretty well. Like I said, I built a career around a diesel engine so I am no slouch. With that said, my number one priority is safety. The captain - in my opinion - should have basic mechanical knowledge. But, again, I would absolutely hire the proper crew until I learn more and become familiar with the vessel.

    I have to say, I thoroughly enjoy 'crewing'! And the day I stop/feel lazy, I'd have no problem sitting back and relaxing while someone else does the work! I guess my main concern is I prefer privacy and I am a little hesitant having crew on board, especially since I never have before. I feel like finding a captain is hard. But finding a captain with whom you can build a relationship is the holy grail, the needle in the haystack. Something that I'll have to get over if we do end up moving forward with the purchase.

    Thank you again for your lengthy, thought-out post. I really appreciate it!!
  16. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks, Capt J! I like many of the features that Benetti offers but I wasn't sure about the quality. I guess they're the Maserati of the sea: look good with name recognition (At first) but fall flat in delivering a quality product. Oh well.

    I totally forgot about Heesen. Does anyone have experience with them?
  17. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    Slept on it.....crew is definitely needed. I may not need a stewardess or a chef, but the rest of the crew will - duh! No biggie. I have been reading a lot about Heesen this morning and they're intriguing! Thank you, all!
  18. ychtcptn

    ychtcptn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    I will keep this short, and not comment on the crew issue, covered in full above.

    Benetti- Lots of headaches
    Westport- fewer headaches

    Good luck!
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Also figure out your cruising area because the difference of places you can get into with a 100’ hatteras or 112’ Westport, you may not be able to get into with a 130’ Westport or may need to make arrangements several months out. I personally much prefer being at a dock than anchored.
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,118
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    The idea of getting a land based crew to wash and clean after a trip works for a day or week end trip. It will not work out when cruising which is the point of a boat that size. Even if you find Day workers or contractors in various places you ll visit you and your captain may not be happy with the quality of the work.

    Line handling work on boats in that size range is nowhere near what it is on a smaller vessel because of the size of the lines and fenders. It is not something casual boaters, friends, family can easily handle. There is also a risk of folks not understanding the size getting hurt.

    As a captain, I don't let untrained folks handle lines. I ve seen so many "experienced boaters" doing stupid things on the "little" 84 i run like jumping on a dock holding a line, trying to fend off a piling that doesn't need to be or just getting in the way. I just can't imagine that working on a 120+. Captain and crew need to work as a team, which doesn't work with unknown people.

    I can understand the desire to keep crew to a minimum and you certainly can cut down on interior crew like chef and drink fetchers but Once you hit 100/110 it s hard not to have an engineer. Too many systems to maintain