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Are bilges connected

Discussion in 'Carver Yacht' started by timjet, Mar 27, 2011.

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  1. timjet

    timjet Member

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    My '98 Carver 355 Aft Cabin has 3 bilges. I believe they are connected meaning that water will flow from one to the other if it gets high enough. Can anyone confirm this.
    I want to install a reverse float switch one that will cut power to my air conditioning pump if a line breaks and starts to flood the boat. One reverse float switch should be sufficient if the bilges are connected.

    Also, anyone know where I can get such a float switch? It would have to be 120 volt and be rated to be used in a wet area.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You will probably also have to use a relay in addition to the float switch as chances are you will not find a switch rated for the amount of amps a ac pump draws.......
  3. chuckb

    chuckb Senior Member

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    You don't want AC (120V) in your bilge... bad idea! The bilge switch will need to be run to a relay that controls the AC voltage. 120 AC in water travels everywhere (or more hopefully blows the circuit breaker), but if there's a fault the result is that anyone that contacts bilge water risks becoming a statistic.
  4. timjet

    timjet Member

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    Well my bilge already has AC current in it, in the form of the 115 v air conditioning circulation pump.

    I could with a little help figure out a relay setup. Using a standard bilge pump switch connected to a relay/solenoid would I guess work. Any suggestion on the details of how I would hook this up?
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Bilges should not be connected since you don't want fuel or oil from a possible leak to get into living quarter bilges

    Your AC pump may be in the bilge but it is/should be away from water

    I don't see the point of your reverse float switch. If an AC water line fails the AC will shut down on high pressure due to the loss of water flow and when it does the pump will shut down as well

    Now obviously if the leak is below waterline water will still flow in with the pump off sonyou d be better off adding an extra bilge pump since most production boats don't have enough anyway
  6. chuckb

    chuckb Senior Member

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  7. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    It is a simple project but many people might hesitate to offer help online because just asking how indicates you might not have the skills or knowledge to work with mixed voltages and the components required to do the job yourself. Please don't take that as an insult. If I went on a flying forum and asked how to start the engine of a specific aircraft, I bet a lot of people would be leery of responding.

    If you want a schematic with a suggestion for components, I would be happy to send you one but only with your full appreciation that I have absolutely no control of how you build or install the system, no knowledge of your level of electrical safety awareness, and your complete understanding that if you do it wrong you might hurt yourself, someone else, the boat, and in the end it might not work at all for what you have in mind. Not because the design is faulty but because it was built and installed by someone not skilled in doing so.

    This borders on the Nordhavn thing in a way, someone installed something, someone didn't use good judgment, and Nordhavn got poked with a sharp stick. None of us want to be Nordhavn. (except at the bank maybe)
  8. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Your bilge area may have 115V AC but those lines should not be anywhere near the bilge water. The simplest setup will likely be a 12 VDC NC relay. Contacts rated 120V ?? amps depending on the design of your A/C system. A high water bilge alarm switch connected to 12V can power the relay and an alarm at the same time. On the AC A/C side you don't want to interrupt the water pump - you need to shut down the whole system. The compressor shouldn't be running without cooling water. So you basically need to turn off the A/C as if the area was satisfied. Ideally it would use the compressor lockout feature to prevent cycling if someone bumped the float switch.

    As others have cautioned YOU need to understand what you are doing before you start. I only offer this as a suggestion of one way to do it for someone who could do it another way without my help.
  9. timjet

    timjet Member

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    Thanks guys for the offer to help. I'm re-thinking this whole thing, not because I don't have the skills or understand the dangers of working with AC current or the possibility of mixing AC and DC but rather the need for such a switch in the first place. As Pascal mentioned if cooling water stops, circuitry in the air con system will shutdown the pump due to an overheat. I had forgot about this safety feature.

    I'm just surprised that this issue has not been discussed before not only here but elsewhere. I just bought my boat and this is the first summer I will use the air con and will do as most in Florida, leave the ac on when I'm not using the boat. I just think the potential for a real problem exits, but apparently it is not enough of a common occurance to justify a fix. Certainly a manufacturer would be advertising such a switch if it was widely needed and one would not have to design and make it himself.
  10. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Just be careful of the man called Murphy who lurks in the bilge of every boat.
  11. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    reason it's not discussed is that it is not needed because of the circuitry in the AC/pump system...

    again, look at your bilge pumps capacity first. i woudn't be surprised if you boat only has 3, 1500 to 2000 gph pumps which isn't enough.

    your AC pump is probably aroudn 1000 GPH on a boat that size so a 2000GPH bilge pump shoudl have no problem keeping up but i'd want a back up.

    the best way to add a back up bilge pump, ideall the larger 3700 rule, is to mount it higher in the bilge so that it only comes in if the primary fails or fails to keep up.

    float switches are the primary cause for bilge pump failures so test them, at least monthly.

    with adequate bilge pumps, regular tests and routine inspectinos of the AC coolling hose and clamps, you dnot' have much to worry about. AC cooling is fairly low pressure... if installed properly, even if both hose clamps fail on a barb, the hose will not pull out without some serious efforts. often, you have to slit the hose to get it off a barb fitting...
  12. RB480

    RB480 Senior Member

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    On almost every Carver I have been on the forward and aft bilge connect through the stringers and the engine room is sealed off.
  13. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Not all systems have that circuitry. Mine would trip the compressors on high head and leave the pump running. Also you could have a failure of a hose downstream of the compressor which wouldn't make any difference to any A/C system since the water flow would be normal.

    I agree that the pump volume should be less than any reasonable bilge pump. However I'm sure there are more than a few sinkings due to the A/C system failing. Probably most are related to the A/C failing first and the bilge pump giving up later. Maybe days later.