Click for YF Listing Service Click for Cross Click for JetForums Click for Delta Click for Perko

Altered Reference

Discussion in 'Yacht Captains' started by shaft1279, Jun 24, 2007.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. shaft1279

    shaft1279 New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    .
    A few weeks ago a deckie I worked with in 2005 emailed me and said he was looking for a job, and was he still good for a reference? I replied sure, and asked him to email me the written one I gave him when he left, to jog my memory. I only give paper copies with a signature and stamp on. This he did, but for some reason I couldn't open the pdf and I gave up.
    Last week I got an email from a Captain asking about the guy so I went back to the mail and the document opened. It had my signature and the ships stamp on the bottom, but the one slightly negative comment I made (otherwise it was a pretty good recommendation) was missing. There was also an obvious typo, which I wouldn't leave uncorrected. I wasn't 100% sure of my facts so I called my old boat and asked them to send the document I wrote from their server. I was right, he had altered it. I emailed a crew agency that had also contacted me about him that morning and asked them to send their copy of the document and it was also the altered document.
    I gave him a call to give him a chance to explain himself and after very little debate he admitted the fraud. He has since sent a grovelling email asking me not to 'make life difficult for him'.
    I let the Captain who was thinking of employing him know about the situation, and also the crew agent who had contacted me that morning. Since then a few others have emailed checking the reference but I haven't yet answered.
    I do not take ruining another man’s career lightly, but I think it’s pretty clear I cannot do anything other than tell the truth to everyone who contacts me about this guy, otherwise I am giving my recommendation to someone who I have found out to be undeserving of it, which tarnishes my name.
    I would be interested to hear other members’ perspective on this, whether it has happened to them, and also whether there is any way of preventing this from happening in the future. I know pdf files can be altered using Adobe Pro, however I think this guy just converted the piece of paper into a Word document using the scanner.
    It has implications for employing crew; references must always be checked with the originator which can be difficult when jobs and contact details change. It would be nice to see crew agencies devise a system that can be trusted by employers - for example once they have checked a reference they print a copy and handwrite that its checked, by who and when, and stamp it. Then rescan and only send this copy to the boats.
    It's also an extra burden on those giving the references as they face innumerable enquiries about that person confirming it, and after a few years memories fade - in a few more years I maybe wouldn't remember exactly what I wrote and this fraud would have gone undetected.
    And if it's this easy to alter references, it wouldn't be too hard to alter a Testimonial, for example 38 days at sea becomes 138......
  2. OutMyWindow

    OutMyWindow Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2006
    Messages:
    905
    Location:
    ...............
    I think you have answered your own question. On the other hand, everyone makes mistakes and it's your call to decide if he's learned from this one.
  3. OutMyWindow

    OutMyWindow Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2006
    Messages:
    905
    Location:
    ...............
  4. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    I rarely offer written references. I alway tell crew to feel free to give out my email or telephone number.
  5. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,372
    Location:
    out on the dock
    It would appear that this individual traded what you said was a small negative on the accurate document, for a much larger negative rep going forward. Sounds like this person created their own ruinous situation.
  6. airship

    airship Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    French Riviera...
    shaft1279 wrote:
    Followed by:
    And finally:
    Here is my perspective on the issue FWIW:

    1) Your post is light on detail:

    I'm left wondering what "the one slightly negative comment" made was? You also neglect to recount what excuse/s this ex. deckie gave you for falsifying and removing that "slightly negative comment" from your original reference.

    2) Some of your statements appear to be contradictory:

    The impression I get is that your original written reference to this deckhand was favourable overall, except for "one slightly negative comment". Why would anyone then go to the pains of falsifying a reference to remove a "slightly negative" (that some other employers might interpret as a "constructively-positive") comment? How does the removal of "one slightly negative comment" give rise to the current situation where you felt it necessary to "ruin another man's career" because "it tarnishes your name", in the light of events that only became known to you after the period of the individual's actual employment with you? I was always under the impression that a written reference applied solely to the period an individual was employed. Whatever happened before or happens afterwards shouldn't necessarily tarnish your reputation. Or do you really believe that an employer, having once employed someone, should somehow accept a legal or moral responsibility for reporting all past and/or future actions by this ex. employee that come to his attention?! :confused:

    It's far too easy these days "to destroy someone's livelihood". Whilst I can empathise with your predicament, I would also suggest that anyone who effectively "puts into motion" the wheels that might eventually result in somebody else losing their livelihood, reflect well on whether "they have been angels" throughout their careers also.

    We're talking after all, about an ex. deckhand. Probably someone aged 18-30 or thereabouts. Remember being young?! Or perhaps not? I've worked for my present employer for over 15 years. For the 2 out of 3 jobs I had prior to that, I was allowed to write my own references. Many years before that, I too had my ups and downs. I never ever falsified a reference, but I guess that was because the equivalent of a PC then cost £50,000. When I was about 23, I was very upset with my then employer whom I considered had given me a very rough deal and were "letting me go" finally. And so I approached a major competitor offering to "sell them" a complete computer listing of all my ex. employer's customers. I thought it was worth at least £2,000 but really would have been OK to "give it away". As it happens, this competitor's MD had some "moral substance" I guess and contacted my ex. employer. I got a phone call from my ex. employer - either I destroyed the listing "and nothing more would come out of it, or else...?!" I thought about the possible repercussions and decided to burn the computer listing (with some regret because I really did think that they'd been very unfair with me). Way before that, when I was 14, I "borrowed" a Jeep. And crashed it. The owner decided not to prosecute and though I was simply given a very stiff talking-to by the police chief, I have not repeated that offence (or any others that I'm aware of).

    I'd like to think that what I benefitted from in my more youthful days was known as "indulgence" from others. An all-encompassing term to explain away the errors of youth perhaps. But a valid reason in those days to allow someone another chance, whether that was from a police chief or simply an ex. employer.

    Are you yourself so perfect...?!

    BTW, I've been in the yachting industry for so long now that I could (but I won't) give you some examples of say, current skippers of major superyachts who are today perfect examples of those who take their responsibilities to their owners very seriously indeed. So seriously, in fact, that they actively distance themselves from the suppliers of yacht services and equipment that they used 10-15 years ago, just in case these suppliers' reputations "for acquiesence to their former customers' requirements" presumably catches up with them. There are some yacht skippers I could even today point at and say that I know just how they managed to equip their kitchens with all-new appliances, or their salons with the latest AV equipment or even how they managed to build the swimming pool or extension at their villas 10-20 years ago.

    Back in those days, "the skipper who didn't take advantage" was probably considered a fool. Times change. Today, nobody is innocent, yet someone always ends up paying the price. Sometimes unjustly, it would appear.

    PS. I notice that you're posting from France. What do you think about French taxes and social security deductions? Do you declare your income as a skipper on the Cote d'Azur and can you help anyone else here in your position with minimising their tax liabilities?!
  7. shaft1279

    shaft1279 New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    .
    Never one to duck a debate...

    1. "He does however need to make greater efforts to be clean and tidy, particularly in his personal areas. As he matures he should find this easier."
    Excuse.... mumble mumble.....nothing coherant heard.
    2. I don't see a contradiction. People call up to check a reference (those that do...), when I wrote it I was recommending him, since I discovered this I can no longer recommend him.

    A few people suggested to me privately that as this doctored reference is probably on file with a dozen crew agencies I should contact them all, ask if it is, and if so tell them what he's done. I decided that wasn't something I wanted to do.
    Yes I believe everyone makes mistakes, apparently it hasn't cost this guy too bad as I heard on the grapevine he's got a 2nd mates job....;)

    I do feel however that you missed the point of my post; it was not to be santimonious and declare myself "perfect", but to raise the issue that the pieces of paper which cross our desks may have been tampered with in this way. I had considered giving a paper copy of a reference with a signature and stamp on fairly secure, I no longer do. And it does bother me that it would be just as easy to alter Sea-service testimonials in this way. We assume that checks are in place to prevent that kind of fraud, I hope they are sufficient.
    Nonetheless I'm sure the skippers you have in mind will appreciate you not naming them as thieves and liars. But I'm sure you've learnt by now that if you want good tax advice you have to pay for it :)