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220v 2 wire 50hz to 220 3 wire usa transformer

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by johnnry, Aug 8, 2023.

  1. johnnry

    johnnry Member

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    hello gents, looking for some practical experience and advice on using a transformer inlieu of a frequency convertor (for various reasons) for the A/C only..Cruiseaire has okayed the 60cycle operation both compressor and controls..anyone converting to the 2 wire 220/1 this way? thanks!
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    A 120 to 240 v transformer is probably what you need, taking US 120v input and outputing euro 220v. I ve done this with a french appliance a few years ago. It was only 1500 watts but they come in bigger sizes
  3. johnnry

    johnnry Member

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    thanks, yes Atlas,Ang,Zeus all sell them..hoping to hear if anyone used one with a A/C system without any "funky"operational issues
  4. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    What Atlas sells is a unit that is modified on demand by the Atlas system given variations in voltage conditions on incoming line voltage. The system coordinates with a series of contactors to entice the transformer to behave in different manners.

    It's not clear to me that you can change frequency with a pure transformer as you'll need a DC transition in the system somewhere...???
  5. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    But it would seem that the wrong frequency might booger up the transistors within the appliance, no?
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It depends on the appliance. He said that according to cruisair running his 50Hz system on 60Hz isn’t a problem.

    back in 80a/90s I lived on St Barths where power was French 220v but 60hz. Everything worked fine except electric clocks which were 20% faster…
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I'm not sure witch way your going, From Euro to NA or NA to Euro.

    Most AC compressors will work on 50 AND 60 htz. Just the performance will be a lil low on the 50HZ.
    I'm sure the later controller boards will work 50/60 htz also.
    Later compressors can run on 208 to 240 Vac.

    You typed for the A/C only.
    Neutral or 115Vac is not needed. So you can stay just 2 wire to 2 wire.

    From Euro to NA, using 115VAc options is going to be a task.
  8. johnnry

    johnnry Member

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    thanks all, to clarify, coming from Europe (24v/50cycle) boat to northamerica...the frequency difference is ok by cruiseair as mentioned and btw transformer won't change frequency..what is different is Europe has 230 v on one leg,neutral on the other..in USA we combine 2 x115 v legs to get the 230,and a neutral..so the Atlas has multiple transformer taps for both input and output..so I'm told I can directly wire the 230v 2 wire feed from the boat to the output of transformer..looking for someone who has done this and no issues
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    It is hard for me to wrap my head around this, Euro is neutral then 230Vac? Your fault current goes out on the bottom of the 230(220)v leg?
    So for NA, You have to transform a 230Vac to 230Vac with tap, isolate your Euro fault current lead to NA neutral for fault current path?
    Sorry to distract your thread with my questions.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Euro 220v is like our 120v, 1 hot and 1 neutral except that the hot is 220v not 120v.

    so yes, connect 120v to the transformer and you will get 220v at the output which can be connected to the boat.

    going back to my youth on st barths, to connect a US washer and dryer to French 220v took 3 heavy duty transformers. I think they were 5 KVA. One was used to power the washer by stepping down a 220 feed to 120v. Then the other two were used to step down two separate 220v feeds on opposite phases to two 120v still on opposite phases which resulted in US 240 for the washer…
  11. johnnry

    johnnry Member

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    Gents, here is the wiring image001.png diagram recently obtained..As Neutral is not bring used ,I have concerns a gfi circuit on the marina box may fault
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Dockside GFI can’t trip when using an isolation transformer since neutral isn’t used.

    that said, if you have this on the boat, then you should be all set as it is outputting the euro 230v you need

    as much as we all try to help, missing details in questions make difficult.
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I never thought about where the fault current (ground/neutral) path was.
    Here in the swamps we don't think about this that often.
    Thx
  14. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad Member

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    This isn't quite right, in USA there is no neutral for 240Vac split phase. The 3-wire conductor will be L1 L2 GND to the load. Shore supply uses 4-conductor with N only for the 120Vac loads on either leg.

    I've often supplied 240V split phase to European equipment labeled for 220-240V single phase L/N input without issues. As long as the frequency difference is acceptable, a transformer is not needed to power the A/C compressors and pumps. And if the frequency difference is not acceptable, a simple step-up/down transformer won't help anyway.
  15. johnnry

    johnnry Member

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    ok,thanks for comment,but how do you tie the 2x 120v feeds to the 230 v 2 wire euro inputs?...
  16. RossC

    RossC Member

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    A buddy with an Italian built trawler has two large inverters in the ER. Dock power goes to the inverters then out to the boat systems. They could be transformers but he called them inverters.

    The boat also has Iveco engines that no one wants to work on.
  17. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Inverters intake DC and output AC. You can’t hook up shore power AC to an inverter.
  18. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Pascal, actually not only you can, at least with Victron inverters (which are very popular in Europe), but you should.
    In fact, they are designed to work also for topping up shore power in the event of peak loads, adding AC generated from the batteries.
    To provide this functionality, shore power must be wired to the inverter(s) first, with AC passing through the inverter(s) before going to the onboard AC circuit.
    This way, if for instance you have only 32A or whatever available from the dock, you can set that limit for dockside drawing, avoiding to trip the pedestal breaker.
    And whenever more than 32 amps of AC is demanded (typically, upon airco compressors startup), the inverters add it to the dockside 32A by drawing currrent from the batteries.
    At least, up to a limit - that can also be set, obviously.

    That said, the thread subject is actually different, and involves something (voltage + frequency conversion) that I don't think the Victron inverters I have in mind can handle.
    But they are very sophisticated units, with plenty of functionalities aside from the one I just explained, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's something they can do that I'm not aware of.
  19. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad Member

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    You're referring to the new generation of inverter/chargers with features like AC pass-through as standard. Victron and others can also 'power-assist' the incoming AC supply for intermittent peak loads like motor start-up.

    But @Pascal is correct, inverters do exactly what he said ;)
  20. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad Member

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    Apologies if I've missed something in your question, but I'd connect L1 L2 to L/N and GND to case or green screw.

    Ensure your N is not connected to the main neutral bus if the rest of your power is single phase.