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Class-action lawsuit against IYBA & YachtWorld...

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by YachtForums, Apr 5, 2024.

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  1. YachtForums, Apr 5, 2024
    #1
    YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Following the NAR roll-back on real estate commissions, a suit has been brought against multiple brokerage firms including the listing systems owned by Boats Group (YachtWorld) and the IYBA. Here's an excerpt...

    The marine-industry lawsuit states: “Defendants’ conspiracy has kept buyer-broker commissions in the 4% to 5% range, artificially and anticompetitively elevated beyond where they would be in a market free from Defendants’ conspiracy, for many years, despite the diminishing role of buyer-brokers. Many yacht buyers no longer search for prospective vessels with the assistance of a broker, but rather independently through online services.”

    https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/industry-news/lawsuit-alleges-inflated-broker-commissions

    Link to the complaint...

    https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/lbpgbzrdgvq/Yacht-brokers-Florida-antitrust.pdf
    ​
  2. 993RSR, Apr 9, 2024
    #2
    993RSR

    993RSR Senior Member

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    A few yacht broker musings
    As far as the real estate complaint goes, I have tried to understand the point. It sounds as if buyers will benefit because home owners will sell cheaper. Ha! The home value remains the same determined by the buyers offers. Seller may "net" more.

    On the yacht brokerage side, this is a non starter. 10% is a bargain for the sellers. The commissions are often negotiated down as you get up in the $5M and up zone.
    I have a $1M boat under contract now that has been a long, complicated deal for my $100K commission. Boat buyers expect the brokers to drive Porsches and wear a Rolex. They ain't cheap :) .
    In 2009-2011 the boat sales market was so weak that sellers were offering more than 10%, including bonuses, hookers and automatic weapons... the good ole days
    2021-2022 even a cave man could do the deals. Some did

    Any questions? Wait I have a story.
    Way back... maybe 2002-2004 there was a beautiful 78' Hatteras CMY that the owner wanted to sell. Godspeed, Karl and Nancy, He was a tough nut, insurance guy that was well known. A new car dealer in VA Beach was looking for such a boat but again a tough nut. I hooked the two of them up to do a direct deal. They each called me back and said that the other was unreasonable, bottom feeder... I jumped in the middle and sold the boat to the car dealer for a 75K commission.

    I consumed no adult beverages before this post.
    gr8trn, RER, Capt Ralph and 2 others like this.
  3. motoryachtlover, Apr 9, 2024
    #3
    motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    I bet you have got some stories to tell. I can only imagine. I am in commercial real estate so I have some broker experiences. A good broker earns his/her keep. I bad one can and does ruin deals. Just like any profession some good some bad.
  4. RUSSLAND, Apr 9, 2024
    #4
    RUSSLAND

    RUSSLAND Member

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    I would agree 100% My experience as a broker tells me that a seller and a buyer have their own egos they cannot diminish To find a compromise-they need someone in between. I consider broker's function not as a middleman but rather a diplomat
  5. RER, Apr 9, 2024
    #5
    RER

    RER Senior Member

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    In simple terms I would describe the job mostly as keeping the buyer and seller from trashing the deal.

    Sales commissions for boats and real estate have always been negotiable. Set your asking price accordingly. And I think you get what you pay for in most cases. As far as any windfall for buyers and sellers this is a nothing-burger like so much in the “news” these days.
  6. Cpt Sous-Leau, Apr 9, 2024
    #6
    Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

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    I have been buying and selling RE for 40 years, and boats for about the same. Since I am the noob here, I will gird my loins and remain mostly silent. Except to say, not all brokers are created equal, and not all brokers should be compensated the same percent. This is the crux of the lawsuit.

    I could tell some stories too. And, they do not paint commission based reps in a very good light. :(

    haveaniceday
  7. 993RSR, Apr 10, 2024
    #7
    993RSR

    993RSR Senior Member

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    Captains make WAY too much money! :)
    I was showing a Intermarine in Savannah and the captain walks in and says, "All evidence of the fire has been dealt with". WHAT? Then he went into the details of a fire tug spraying water into the pilothouse. Pretty funny. The buyers were convinced they could smell the strong odor of mold and mustiness after hearing the story.
    There are many boats out there with a history of significant incidents. There is a time and place to reveal the details and back it up with documents and an abstract.

    Lawyers deserve 1/3 of a clients proceeds.
  8. classic, Apr 10, 2024
    #8
    classic

    classic Member

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    Money Grab that's all this is yes real estate was a bite but think about wall street brokers with your retirement funds what they take in for commission its nothing but legal gambling game.
  9. motoryachtlover, Apr 10, 2024
    #9
    motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    In RE one has to have a broker to get one’s home, building, what have you on the MLS. Being on the MLS for residential RE is almost a must have. In commercial not to the same extent. If access is allowed to the MLS without running it through the brokerages that will be an impactful change. Don’t know how this works with boats. I think good Brokers will still exist because some of the deals get complex and the broker becomes a deal manager keeping his clients on schedule meeting contractual demands at the contracted time.
  10. Cpt Sous-Leau, Apr 11, 2024
    #10
    Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

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    I can get any RE home on MLS for $499 fee. No broker needed.
  11. bernd1972, Apr 11, 2024
    #11
    bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    How on earth do you manage to get sellers to accept a 10% commission over on your side of the pond? In most parts of Europe you have to be ahppy to get like 5% if you´re not one of the few really big offices.
  12. motoryachtlover, Apr 11, 2024
    #12
    motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    I didn’t know this. Thanks for correcting.
  13. wiredup, Apr 11, 2024
    #13
    wiredup

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    Still trying to figure out the legaleeze. The plaintif feels because both, buying, and selling brokers, are from the same company, the 10% commission is illegal?
  14. YachtForums, Apr 25, 2024
    #14
    YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Following the mailer introducing our marketing program for boat sellers, we had the largest response I've seen in 20 years of doing mailers. While we had some push-back from brokers (no surprise!), we had an overwhelming number of positive responses with many people taking time to detail disappointing experiences with brokers.

    We all know good brokers are well-worth the commission they earn, but the way people shop for boats has changed in recent years. In the past, buyers used a broker to find a boat. Today, people turn to online resources to find a boat. Look how Zillow changed the search for real estate.

    I believe some of the best brokers in the industry are active members of our community, however many brokers use YF to train new recruits yet they give nothing back to the community. YF is a vast resource for brokers; expanding their breadth of knowledge, yet they contribute nothing to the collective?

    We encourage sellers to participate with brokers who bring them a buyer, but apparently we pissed off a few brokers by giving consumers an option; a venue to market their own boats. Yacht brokers and YachtWorld have held a decades-long juggernaut on boat transactions. To this, all I can say is markets evolve. Look what digital has done to print.

    We make no apologies for introducing a new venue and it's my belief that it will help the brokerage industry by bringing back the "buyer's broker" whose demand have been dwindling due to online resources.

    And finally, to all the brokers who complained, just remember... I sent you emails for years offering FREE listings on YF but you didn't want to be bothered with uploading pics and specs to another website. Shamefully, these are the guys that are supposed to be marketing their client's yachts! :rolleyes:
    lobo, K1W1, f3504x4ps and 1 other person like this.
  15. classic, Apr 25, 2024
    #15
    classic

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    Bravo !

    :)
  16. YachtForums, May 12, 2024
    #16
    YachtForums

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    A friend forwarded this from a FB posting. I'm not including the attorney's name because I don't agree with these retroactive tactics but maybe it will bring about positive change.

    Attached Files:

  17. Capt Ralph, May 12, 2024
    #17
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Can you comment;
    Is that from a real & legit attorney firm or some sleazy ambulance & hearse chaser?
  18. YachtForums, May 12, 2024
    #18
    YachtForums

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    Legit.
  19. classic, May 13, 2024
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    classic

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    OMG :eek:
    Next, it's the car salesman:rolleyes:

    too many lawyers in today's world
  20. YachtForums, Aug 26, 2025 at 12:18 PM
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    YachtForums

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