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two issues on survey

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by gr8trn, Mar 9, 2025 at 11:10 PM.

  1. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    Survey result found this, I am not sure what to make of it. It is above my pay grade for sure. Any thoughts or ideas about these findings to help me understand and learn more about this would be cool.

    1.The shorepower connection was improperly wired or defective,with no ground wire connection to the dock. This is an unsafe condition and renders the ELCI and GFCI residual current devices on board inoperal.

    Have a qualified marine electrician diagnose and repair the system.



    2.The AC voltage was measured at 132 volts when connected to shore power. This is an unsafe level, particularly in combination with the lack of a safety ground connection. It appeared that the Victron isolation transformer was configured to “step-up” when it should not be.

    Have a qualified Victron service person investigate and properly configure the isolation transformer.



  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It seems to be something important from a safety standpoint but not very expensive to correct.

    but since you don’t bother telling us what kind of boat and shore power type you re dealing with it s difficult to give any intelligent answer

    ground is critical so you have to make sure it is connected….
  3. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I agree with Pascal that without further details it's hard to help you understand the problem better.
    That said, I would question the competence of whoever wrote the above anyway, because:

    1) If the boat is equipped with onboard ELCI/GFCI device(s?), I see no logical reason why that shouldn't work as intended also if the GND dock connection is interrupted. Any onboard leak should trip such device regardless of whether connected to dock GND or not.
    In fact, assuming that the boat is equipped with a genset or an inverter to provide AC onboard even when not docked, the protection device should work also whenever the boat is completely disconnected from the dock supply.

    2) By design, Victron isolation transformers can work with either an AC supply anywhere between 88 and 130V (switching automatically to 115V output), or anywhere between 185 and 250V (switching to 230V output).
    So, there's no such thing as a voltage "step-up" with those units, but it's rather a matter of voltage stabilization, within pre-set limits.
    Anyway, in this case I agree with the recommendation to have that checked by a qualified electrician familiar with Victron units.
  4. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    On second thought, ref. (1) above, it would be interesting to understand what exactly that guy meant by "no ground wire connection to the dock", because whenever the boat is equipped with an isolation transformer, by definition the onboard GND circuit is isolated from the shore GND wire.
    That's in fact the main raison d'être of an isolation transformer!
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    This is correct. Isolation means Isolation. Your ship's bonding (green wire) is not connected to the ship's bonding next to you or anything up the dock.

    I fear some lacking on the surveyor.

    Found this in the Victron cut-sheet;
    Note: The AC input voltage is raised by 1:1.05 ratio at the AC output.
    This would be 115Vac to 120Vac.
    Or 125.7 Vac to make 132Vac.
    Does your dock really have 126Vac?

    https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Isolation-Transformers-EN.pdf

    Now, the big question is;
    Since Victron only makes up to a 7KW isolation transformer, are we really looking at a Victron isolation transformer installation?
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2025 at 8:36 AM
  6. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    Okay, my main men are in the job, YF rules!
    More details.
    Boat is Besteaver 45ST. What’s that? Aluminum cutter rigged sloop from KM yacht builders in Makkum Dutch land.

    The report does not say the ELCI didn’t work only the test function.

    If I read it right Ralph, the isolation transformer isolates the ship, so shore power ground connections has to relevancy?

    I don’t know the voltage at the brokerage shore power…?

    I am sure thankful for your input good sirs!
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Now I m confused… if the ground isn’t connect to the dock when you have an isolation transformer, why having the green wire in the shore power cord in the first place? With an IT, the neutral isn’t used and many cords don’t have the white wire but they do have the Green
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    The green wire in the shore cord gives the cord a fault current path.
    In some designs, the IT case is grounded to the shore. Follow the lead in post #5 above to see this installation.
  9. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    Of course I am not at the boat and have no pictures of the shore in and boat out wiring and any jumpers or green grounding wiring at the Victron 3600w IT. I know that would help.

    I will get the Vac at the dock and I have a Victron authorized pro on the job.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Alloy hull will last a lil longer not connected with other boats on the same dock.
    Still, I hope your survey included hull plate inspections and thickness testing.

    This may be a similar model.
    B45ST.jpg
    gr8trn likes this.
  11. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    Yep hull ultrasounding, although that is usefull, insurance likes it too, it's hard to shoot the ultrasound on the entire hull so like moisture meters, hull tapping and the rest it is done but not 100% guarantee.

    As for the boat, that may be a sistership for sure. That is for sure a Bestaever by KM Yachts.
  12. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    That's the reason why I asked what "no ground wire connection to the dock" exactly means.
    In a correct IT installation, the shore cord should include GND, but the equivalent GND wire downstream of the IT should NOT be connected to it.
    So, whoever checked the boat might (but I'm just guessing) have checked with his multimeter, finding no connection between onboard and shore GND, reaching the conclusion that there's something wrong.
    While that's precisely how ITs are meant to work!
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Yep.

    However, I have found some installs with simple ITs & green connected all thru, but with galvanic isolators behind the panels.
    With factory prints reinforcing this schema. Never figured this out and left alone.
  14. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    That's indeed weird.
    Having GND directly passing through an IT and fit also a galvanic isolator is akin to having a parachute and not deploy it in the hope to land on a mattress! o_O

    Then again, if you worked on boats for many years, I'm sure you must have seen even more funny arrangements...! :)
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Sadly,, I have witnessed some stuff... :(
    I hope we have answered Brother gr8trn's questions and were of help.
    Sorry to expand on his thread. :D
    I hope to hear more of his purchase and adventures. :)
    An all alloy hull has to be an adventure. Then a mast on top.
    Working on alloy Strikers and Roamers, I have some experience here (without a mast).
  16. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    For sure, mucho help indeed.
    I now have questions to ask.
    I will keep y'all up to date as we progress.
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  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Because it's there. Hatteras from 2002 ish to current only have 2 out of the 3 prongs on their 50 amp plugs on the cord. The isolation transformer eats the neutral or doesn't use it (white wire I believe). But still use the green in case there is a direct short. It sounds like the boat is wired appropriately and the surveyor is unfamiliar with how the equipment works.
  18. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Thank you, because this is where my interpretation was going...all that travels from boat to dock are the lines and the ground. Once aboard everything is isolated, and only the lines pass through.
  19. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Problem is that you'll need a marine electrician to review and write his summary to be shared with the surveyor and obtain a corrected article. Metal boat, you'll want to be **** certain that your electrical systems are dialed in.