Click for Westport Click for Walker Click for YF Listing Service Click for Perko Click for Glendinning

Sea Trial; It went well, then it didn't. AITAH?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Cpt Sous-Leau, Jun 20, 2024.

  1. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,229
    Location:
    Windsor On. Canada
    Could just be a July 4th holiday thing.
  2. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,591
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    Well, the process is what you make of it. As others have suggested, I don’t think your strategy got you off to a good start. But what’s done is done.

    It’s been two weeks. That’s enough time for the seller and the broker to figure out what’s going on with the boat and get back to you with specifics - at a minimum. Really there should have been enough time to get the issues resolved and the trial run and haul out completed before the holiday.

    I realize the captain had a family tragedy. That’s unfortunate but in that case the seller hires someone else for the day.

    If I understand you correctly, you’ve heard nothing? If so then I think the seller is just not willing to do what needs to be done to get his boat sold. If that’s the case, or whatever the case, there’s still no excuse for the broker not keeping you informed. Unless he did and I missed that part.
  3. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    Is there something strategic that you think would have resulted in a different outcome?
  4. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    We had a very good day at the marina. It took them an hour to rig the lift with double straps for my boat, but it got done. We lifted safely and jeez - just unbelievable the coating of crud on there. I stuck my finger into it, and it went in past my fingernail by a good bit. There were little trailing stringy stuff, the props were coated from the hub out about 70%, but the outer edge was not coated, I guess from cruising it to the lift.

    The boat was lifted about 1pm, and the cleaning started. We weren't done until well after 3. It was more than 2 hours to get all the gunk off. At the same time the fuel filters were being changed and the Racor filters were changed as well.

    We got out and warmed up, I could tell already there was improvement. It came up on plane much quicker. We got WOT and with three different GPS figured top speed is now 29.7MPH. We had a hair over 30 with a bit of tailwind. Close to 2300RPM, but not quite there. Economy cruise was at 1710RPM giving 17.6Kts just barely on plane. Best speed seemed to be 1950revs doing about 20-21MPH.

    There are a few small things on the survey that we will negotiate, but it looks like I'll finish this one off with a purchase. Finally.
  5. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,591
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    Well there you go. Looks like a happy ending after all. A clean bottom on trial run day is a pretty basic requirement. A quick pre run before you started spending money would have saved you some grief.
    LM Viking likes this.
  6. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    Already stated there was no 'joy rides' allowed before an offer was made and accepted. Subject to of course; Survey and sea trial. I could have moved the sea trial up to the same day as the offer acceptance, and I would have known the same info, just earlier in the process. But I still would have done a survey, and change filters, and clean the bottom, inspect, and new sea trial.

    Edit to add; As I'm learning, in the big boat world, there seems to be a universal 'money talks, bullshit walks' sort of standard at work. One does not walk into a brokerage and go ride around on half mil boats for a few hours. Captain or owner must be on board, fuel costs, and insurance exposure makes it pretty clear that one has to buy in to try out. I'm sure there would be an exception made for Bill Gates, or Elon, but for me - Cpt Sous-Leau from Big Hat Texas, I had to pony up a check.

    YMMV
  7. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    I was way off, as you presumed. They are 29x32.

    Still a LOT of small crud on the props. This winter I'm having them taken off, polished and put that marine yellow urine coating to prevent stuff clinging.
  8. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,591
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    I don’t know where you’re coming up with the joyride characterization. I’m talking about a trial run after an accepted offer and deposit but before spending money on inspections. It can be abbreviated and resumed later. But it’s not a joyride.

    I’ve done hundreds of boat deals. Many hundreds actually. This strategy has been standard procedure for me not every time, but every time I have concerns about the boat or the seller’s knowledge of the boat.

    If a seller is unwilling to accommodate a reasonable request I think it’s best for everyone else to know that up front. And sometimes they don’t want to.

    On the other hand, to keep a deal moving along I’ve seen sellers fix a problem on a boat so fast it will make your head spin.

    More knowledge going into a sale means more success coming out of it. And less aggravation in the middle.
    Offthehook242, SeaLion and gr8trn like this.
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,610
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Exactly.
    As I mentioned early in the thread a quick sea trial after offer is accepted and before survey is a must to make sure the boat is worth surveying.

    once you have a contract you re not a joy rider but a serious buyer who has put down tens of thousand as deposit.

    if a seller doesn’t accept, he s hiding something

    a quick sea trial on a boat that size is no big deal… usually the seller can do it and it’s 20/30 gallons of fuel max.

    glad it worked out, the seller is lucky you persisted.
  10. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,532
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Happy this is working out for you. Sounds like your patience and diligence is paying off.

    From the seller/broker perspective it's hard to understand how anyone lists a boat for sale without at least ensuring basic maintenance has been done. I understand the seller is elderly and has health issues. But where is the broker in advising and helping ensure the boat is ready to sell? Isn't it in his/her best interest to so? I'm not suggesting the broker should pay for anyone of this but you would think they would help arrange these things on the seller's behalf under the circumstances. When I bought my boat it was not in area that I lived in so I couldn't be there for everything. My broker was awesome and helped arrange all kinds of stuff. He even moved the boat for me post sale from Newport Beach to San Diego and put it at his dock until my transport window opened up.
  11. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    I have more trouble making myself understood on this forum than any other place I visit. Not sure why that is, but it certainly seems to affect this forum exclusively:

    Cpt Sous-Leau, Jun 20, 2024
    #13


    Cpt Sous-Leau Member
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    Let me clarify a bit. The schedule was: wet survey in the slip. Sea Trial. Haul out, dry survey. The wet survey part went great, the few things we found were agreed to fix before sale. Then, the haul out called and cancelled due to illness. We were still on for the sea trial. I'm in the middle of the survey, and this is when the sea trial went Tango Uniform.

    I asked when I gave the deposit if we could take the boat out for a ride, and the seller said no to that until the survey was done.
  12. Dark horse

    Dark horse Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2024
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Florida
    Sounds good. I have a couple questions. I would never ask someone to take me for a ride for free no matter how serious I was. Would it be frowned upon if I said I’ll cover fuel cost for a ride?

    Any guesses how long that stuff that was growing on the boat? How was it cleaned off? Pressure washer? Would driving the boat at the fastest speed have stripped it off eventually?
  13. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    First question, I'm apparently the wrong guy to ask. If I am shopping a plane, and want a test flight I always tell the seller gas is on me. Boats? It's a mine field.

    We have no history of the last quick haul, but it's been at least 6 years as the last time the owner was on the boat was 2017, and they think it was hauled and cleaned after that. If that is true, they didn't do much cleaning on that trip. The guy that cleaned it had a big Hotsy pressure washer. It was big, it was powerful and the jet of water was just under boiling hot. He wore welder gloves to handle it. (I tipped him $60) Driving the boat at any high speed might have taken a very small layer off. The boat had been run WOT on the first sea trial, and that did nothing that I could see. It does help if one drives their boat around regularly, as movement of any kind will knock some crud off.

    The haul out and wash was actually pretty cheap at the home marina. They give discounts for vets, seniors, and teachers. I qualify for all three. I'm planning to do a quick haul every 2-3 years from now on. Just amortize it as annual service cost. Looking at new bottom paint in March or April next year.
  14. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,532
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    I asked when I gave the deposit if we could take the boat out for a ride, and the seller said no to that until the survey was done.[/QUOTE]



    I wonder if this is typical or unusual? I know with my last two boat purchases I did not experience this. In both cases the seller was amenable to a short trial once offer was made and accepted. Only criteria was that the selling broker had to come along on the ride which was understood and reasonable. Curious if others experience a seller that won't allow a sea trial prior to survey and what the reasoning is?
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,610
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    You just have to put in the offer you present.

    in all the deals I ve been involved in, whether for my personal boats or as the buyers captain, it has never been an issue.

    you just put it in the offer. Now if after the contract is signed you say… hey can we take the boat for a ride?… no surprise the answer is no.

    as to whether or not a high speed run will clean the bottom… no it won’t. A badly fouled bottom and running gear will prevent the boat from getting on plane anyway. Bottom and running gear cleaning with a river is routine maintenance. A dirty hull is a sign of neglect.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2024
  16. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
    Messages:
    918
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, USA

    Perhaps it was just about presentation and order. Specifying an upfront "sea trial" in your offer -- prior to your sequence of "wet survey in slip. Sea Trial. Haul out, dry survey." -- is different from "asking for a ride" after the contract is in place.

    Also, "sea trial" and "ride" aren't the same thing, anyway.

    Seems like you've solved it, though, so your way and the way it's worked for others -- all mentioned here -- might at least guide some future subscriber.

    In our transactions, it's been common for the sequence to have been movement to the lift, haul-out and powerwash, survey, then sea trial -- not terribly unlike your experience. Except on the last one, this boat, travel to the lift was several miles and about an hour... so we happened to be able to get a feel for what to expect early on in the process.

    -Chris
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2024
  17. Dark horse

    Dark horse Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2024
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Florida
    Ive sold lots of helicopters and I only charged for fuel if the people were local. I figure if they came a long way, they’re serious. If they are local, I’m not sure if they just want a joyride. Often times, I said $200 non-refundable deposit. (I don’t mind covering fuel if they buy the aircraft) Just the fact that they offer to pay for fuel makes me feel better whether i except it or not.

    I just don’t follow how it’s a big hassle to take it out if I offer money. I don’t mind if the amount of money is slightly more than fuel cost. This is before I sign any contracts. Would I really be offending someone? I’m not talking about going out for hours, just enough time to evaluate stuff. (Maybe 30 minutes)

    Just out of curiosity, how long is a “sea trials” to you guys? Is there a reason I should want to go out longer than 30 minutes? Sorry for the questions. (I’m really new to this)
  18. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,532
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Just out of curiosity, how long is a “sea trials” to you guys? Is there a reason I should want to go out longer than 30 minutes? Sorry for the questions. (I’m really new to this)[/QUOTE]

    Talk to your surveyor and engine assessment person on how long they need. It will depend on the boat and how many systems need to be checked while underway. Also how long does it take to get to open water ? 30 mins is almost certainly not enough time. Several hours or more is more likely.
  19. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,610
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    A survey sea trial takes about 45 minutes to an hour and involves running the boat at various RPM settings while the surveyors collect data. It also includes a brief flat out run to check max RPM and temperature.

    also includes checking the engine mounts while shifting in and out of gears, checking for vibrations, steering etc.

    a pre survey sea trial, to make sure the boat is worth surveying, is typically shorter just 15 minutes at cruise to make sure the boat gets on plane, runs without vibrations or overheating. On a small boat, under 60/70, we re talking 20/25 gallons of fuel.
    Dark horse likes this.
  20. Dark horse

    Dark horse Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2024
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Florida
    Talk to your surveyor and engine assessment person on how long they need. It will depend on the boat and how many systems need to be checked while underway. Also how long does it take to get to open water ? 30 mins is almost certainly not enough time. Several hours or more is more likely.[/QUOTE]

    When you say open water, is this just to get out of a “no wake” area? Or are you wanting bigger waves for some reason?